turboaddict2
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2002
Just installed my powerplate along with JJ 62mm tb and plenum mod and am very pleased with the results. Smoother idle, better acceleration and no knock even at partial throttle boosting! Love it!
power plate Question
- Thread starter pwhite
- Start date
BoostedBug
Contents Under Pressure
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2002
I will have mine this week!
Jason,
I was not dogging your product out, I just have concerns of how it works. In the past I have like many of us have been sucked dry by these one of a kind inventions. I dont know you and I am not saying you are doing the same thing. All I was asking is questions that make sence to old school racers. I was concerned about air hitting the flat plate at high speed and causing turbulance. Maybe this helps with the RJC power plate? I was just asking and not saying you plate does not work. Please dont take this the wrong way, I like the parts you make and I thank you for making stuff like this for the Buick people. If we lost you it would be a great loss to the Turbo folks. Please forgive me if I crossed you wrong. I did not mean to and I am sorry if I did. I was just asking about something that I thought was and might cause a problem.
thanks:
I was not dogging your product out, I just have concerns of how it works. In the past I have like many of us have been sucked dry by these one of a kind inventions. I dont know you and I am not saying you are doing the same thing. All I was asking is questions that make sence to old school racers. I was concerned about air hitting the flat plate at high speed and causing turbulance. Maybe this helps with the RJC power plate? I was just asking and not saying you plate does not work. Please dont take this the wrong way, I like the parts you make and I thank you for making stuff like this for the Buick people. If we lost you it would be a great loss to the Turbo folks. Please forgive me if I crossed you wrong. I did not mean to and I am sorry if I did. I was just asking about something that I thought was and might cause a problem.
thanks:
The wonderful Search feature will reward you with volumes of responses by typing in:
power AND plate <---just like that
==========================================
It's almost a year-old now, and likely thousands are in use, so there's a clear and positive consensus established re: the power plate. It's interesting to go back & read skeptical posts from last year...and then see later posts by the same people saying how much they love their plate...LOL!
HTH
power AND plate <---just like that
==========================================
It's almost a year-old now, and likely thousands are in use, so there's a clear and positive consensus established re: the power plate. It's interesting to go back & read skeptical posts from last year...and then see later posts by the same people saying how much they love their plate...LOL!
HTH
Randy Greenoe
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
On a local dyno the PP made 12 peak horsepower and 6 across the board.NO changes other than the installation of the PP.
BoostedBug
Contents Under Pressure
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2002
Same boost and it made 12 more hp?
Distribution..
I haven't run my own tests, but it's pretty clear that the PP DOES restrict flow to cylinders 5 and 6, thereby "redirecting" flow to the other cylinders. Since an engine without the PP will be limited by the lean mixture to 5 and 6, and cylinders 1 and 2 well be running too rich for max power, I'm not really surprised that the PP will show some increase in power with no retuning. Wouldn't expect to see much difference in pressure, especially if you measure at the front of the manifold, near the throttle body. Might see a little drop at the back though, under the "narrow" portion of the opening, going to cylinders 5 and 6. There would be even more available, when the boost is increased to the new levels which can be run without the limitation of lean mixture in the back cylinders. It's not as "efficient" as a well designed intake/doghouse combination which would allow free flow AND give good distribition, but unfortunately, Buick didn't provide this.. and the PP is a cheap fix.
I haven't run my own tests, but it's pretty clear that the PP DOES restrict flow to cylinders 5 and 6, thereby "redirecting" flow to the other cylinders. Since an engine without the PP will be limited by the lean mixture to 5 and 6, and cylinders 1 and 2 well be running too rich for max power, I'm not really surprised that the PP will show some increase in power with no retuning. Wouldn't expect to see much difference in pressure, especially if you measure at the front of the manifold, near the throttle body. Might see a little drop at the back though, under the "narrow" portion of the opening, going to cylinders 5 and 6. There would be even more available, when the boost is increased to the new levels which can be run without the limitation of lean mixture in the back cylinders. It's not as "efficient" as a well designed intake/doghouse combination which would allow free flow AND give good distribition, but unfortunately, Buick didn't provide this.. and the PP is a cheap fix.
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
The dyno of Common Sense....
I'm installing the PP on my lightly modded TTA.
Why? For the scientific reasons Jason cites, PLUS, the reduced stress on my crank and most of the moving part in the bottom end, which will result in longer engine life resulting from evenly matched power generated from each of the six cycinders!
The engine design puts more power to a couple of the cylinders and less power to a couple others, that wears the engine more quickly....(the crank in particular. have you priced a TTA crank lately?) The power plate equalizes the power produced by each cylinder.
With high boost and high hp/Tq without the Power plate, the difference between cylinders is amplified, and the mean time to failure is shortened.
For a stock sunday driver, the power plate makes sense to me For a modded car, its painfully obvious that the theory goes way beyond Knock retard, boost, smooth idle, lowering EGT , and tenths gained: Its preserving that performance for another 20,000 or 50,000 miles of fun before a total remanufacture of that little six.
I'm installing the PP on my lightly modded TTA.
Why? For the scientific reasons Jason cites, PLUS, the reduced stress on my crank and most of the moving part in the bottom end, which will result in longer engine life resulting from evenly matched power generated from each of the six cycinders!
The engine design puts more power to a couple of the cylinders and less power to a couple others, that wears the engine more quickly....(the crank in particular. have you priced a TTA crank lately?) The power plate equalizes the power produced by each cylinder.
With high boost and high hp/Tq without the Power plate, the difference between cylinders is amplified, and the mean time to failure is shortened.
For a stock sunday driver, the power plate makes sense to me
For a modded car, its painfully obvious that the theory goes way beyond Knock retard, boost, smooth idle, lowering EGT , and tenths gained: Its preserving that performance for another 20,000 or 50,000 miles of fun before a total remanufacture of that little six. BoostedBug
Contents Under Pressure
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2002
I have a question on this. WHat if you had flow matched injecters for each cylinder? Would the same outcome be achieved?
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
Yes, of course....as long as you can teach those injectors to put more air in those two cylinders that are starved for air...NOT
The power plate is managing and equalizing the AIR flow before it even passes the point on the intake where the injector is located. Flowed injectors insert the fuel charge, so, no, the injector won't do the same thing as the PP. You can put a rich injector in a combustion chamber starved for air, but it will not do the same thing as the power plate, but it might not knock as soon that way.
Plus, the engineers and technical types on the board can go into the affects of unburned hydrocarbons from those air starved cylinders and the affect on O-2 readings, EGT etc., if, you are interested. You're better off with a power plate than without. You'll have fewer failures resultant from uneven air flow to the cylinders after you turn up the boost. Its a simple concept really.
Go to the PP website and study the numbers there. Sometimes descriptive statistics (straight forward numbers without fancy mathmatical manipulation) tell a persuasive story by themselves....This is one of those times: The power plate works on a sound scientific basis, the numbers prove it. The experience of the board members echo the numbers at the website.
I'm not smart enough to hold the bags for some of the brilliant minds here on the board....Most of them already use the power plate, and, the remainder will use it eventually. Thats a pretty good indorsement. I don't know Jason, don't get any money from him, just trying to help you make a good decision for yourself.
Good luck....HTH
The power plate is managing and equalizing the AIR flow before it even passes the point on the intake where the injector is located. Flowed injectors insert the fuel charge, so, no, the injector won't do the same thing as the PP. You can put a rich injector in a combustion chamber starved for air, but it will not do the same thing as the power plate, but it might not knock as soon that way.
Plus, the engineers and technical types on the board can go into the affects of unburned hydrocarbons from those air starved cylinders and the affect on O-2 readings, EGT etc., if, you are interested. You're better off with a power plate than without. You'll have fewer failures resultant from uneven air flow to the cylinders after you turn up the boost. Its a simple concept really.
Go to the PP website and study the numbers there. Sometimes descriptive statistics (straight forward numbers without fancy mathmatical manipulation) tell a persuasive story by themselves....This is one of those times: The power plate works on a sound scientific basis, the numbers prove it. The experience of the board members echo the numbers at the website.
I'm not smart enough to hold the bags for some of the brilliant minds here on the board....Most of them already use the power plate, and, the remainder will use it eventually. Thats a pretty good indorsement. I don't know Jason, don't get any money from him, just trying to help you make a good decision for yourself.
Good luck....HTH
BoostedBug
Contents Under Pressure
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2002
That was not my question. My question is this...
I have flow matched Injectors in my car now. WHen I put this plate on will I have the reverse affect?
The back 2 injectors flow better then the front and I am wondering what is going to happen when this plate goes on. Am I going to have lean condition on the front and a rich condition on the rear?
I have flow matched Injectors in my car now. WHen I put this plate on will I have the reverse affect?
The back 2 injectors flow better then the front and I am wondering what is going to happen when this plate goes on. Am I going to have lean condition on the front and a rich condition on the rear?
I would think so, if your rear injectors all ready flow more fuel to make up the lean condition on these 2, then I think it would run rick on the rear after you put the plate on and lean on the front. That is "IF" the plate works like it is said to. We need someone with egt's on all 6 to do some testing. I see alot of differnet things on here that dont make since. Why is the the plate made with triangles? If the rear 2 are lean why not make a plate that has opening smaller in the rear than the front?or why not make a upper that has a top inlet so the boost is going straight own?
I had a hemco race upper. I could only run 14-15 psi on pump gas w/o knock. I took it off and put a pp on a stock plenum. I ran 17 psi with no knock, and the car did run smoother. I recently took that off and installed the pte upper and pp that Jason sells. Even better now. BTW, thats a great deal on the combo from Jason.
I wasn't going to mention this, but theis trend is really bothering me. It seems to me that a lot of these guys are newer members with a noticable amount of miseducation. I don't think anyone who posted their doubts about the pp has even got close to what Jason runs, or Louie L., or numerous other members who have pp's on here.
Lately it seems like every other post has a response from some guy who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. I rarely post a tech reply unless I'm 99% SURE I'm right, or suggesting something which would not hurt the car if I'm wrong. I have much to learn about all cars, and there are a lot of members here who have a vast knowledge of TR's, which dwarfs mine. I know everyone has to learn somehow, and thats fine. But until you know what you are talking about, don't lead someone even less educated down the wrong path. I would be lost without the help I've recieved on this board, but I'm glad I joined when I did, because the new owners I see now are getting some very bad advice.
Bottom line is this: The power plate works, and it was designed by people who know what they are doing, not some back yard mechanic with a get rich quick scheme. I bet most of the fast guys on here use them, so what does that tell you?
BTW- new guys- look at the signature of the people who post to your questions. When you see a guy with a mile long sig and a best et of 14.70 or something, take that with a grain of salt. When you see a guy with something wicked fast, he may just know what he's talking about. For example: My signature- yeah, its sorta fast, but check out that short time! DO NOT ask me how to hook! Ask the dude with the 1.45 60', he left me sittin'.
I wasn't going to mention this, but theis trend is really bothering me. It seems to me that a lot of these guys are newer members with a noticable amount of miseducation. I don't think anyone who posted their doubts about the pp has even got close to what Jason runs, or Louie L., or numerous other members who have pp's on here.
Lately it seems like every other post has a response from some guy who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. I rarely post a tech reply unless I'm 99% SURE I'm right, or suggesting something which would not hurt the car if I'm wrong. I have much to learn about all cars, and there are a lot of members here who have a vast knowledge of TR's, which dwarfs mine. I know everyone has to learn somehow, and thats fine. But until you know what you are talking about, don't lead someone even less educated down the wrong path. I would be lost without the help I've recieved on this board, but I'm glad I joined when I did, because the new owners I see now are getting some very bad advice.
Bottom line is this: The power plate works, and it was designed by people who know what they are doing, not some back yard mechanic with a get rich quick scheme. I bet most of the fast guys on here use them, so what does that tell you?
BTW- new guys- look at the signature of the people who post to your questions. When you see a guy with a mile long sig and a best et of 14.70 or something, take that with a grain of salt. When you see a guy with something wicked fast, he may just know what he's talking about. For example: My signature- yeah, its sorta fast, but check out that short time! DO NOT ask me how to hook! Ask the dude with the 1.45 60', he left me sittin'.
Flow-Matched Injectors
Steve,
Usually when the term "flow-matched injectors" is used, it means that your 6 have all been bench tested to flow nearly identical to one another, perhaps as close as within a fraction of a percent.
Sometimes dozens are tested just to find 1 set that are near matches. Some injector makers have such high quality control, especially on the larger injectors, that they're extremely close as shipped.
So that's a fair definition of "flow-matched injectors"...Chuck Leeper of Cody Motorsports and/or Jack from Racetronix could elaborate much more on this topic. They do not correct the inherent uneven fuel pathways.
Now, some people have attempted to run richer injectors on the lean cylinders, but not many pursue that technique.
HTH
Steve,
Usually when the term "flow-matched injectors" is used, it means that your 6 have all been bench tested to flow nearly identical to one another, perhaps as close as within a fraction of a percent.
Sometimes dozens are tested just to find 1 set that are near matches. Some injector makers have such high quality control, especially on the larger injectors, that they're extremely close as shipped.
So that's a fair definition of "flow-matched injectors"...Chuck Leeper of Cody Motorsports and/or Jack from Racetronix could elaborate much more on this topic. They do not correct the inherent uneven fuel pathways.
Now, some people have attempted to run richer injectors on the lean cylinders, but not many pursue that technique.
HTH
BoostedBug
Contents Under Pressure
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2002
This is funny, I never doubted the pp but did have questions and now feal that I cannot put the plate on my car. The guy Hyper you are refering to has owned and race competivly his GN since 88, but to say he doesn't know what he is talking about be cause he may be new to this particular board is crap.
Lets see we need input from real fast guys...Kenny D, LC, Jack C are yall out there watching..What do yall think?
I know you did not name Hyper on this but it was implied. Yo just can not say a guy is new to GN'S because he doesn't spen his life on this board...Hell I have over 580 post Since the end of October and still do not know anything.
Thanks Two Lane for some positve input...
Dude, don't tell me who I'm talking about. Actually, I wasn't refering to anyone in particular. Just some members in general. I think the fastest guys probably spend less time on the board than the others, because they are actually doing it. And I wasn't referring solely to this thread. And I'm not saying that all the new members are less smart than the previous members, as there are some guys that have been here for a long time who do the same thing. I'm not knocking anyone, just saying that if you aren't damn sure you know what you're talking about, don't act as though you do. You don't see too many guys arguing with Cotton, or Duttwieler, or any of the big dogs because they have more experience and knowledge than most. So give Jason the same courtesy, obviously he knows his sh!t, and doesn't need second guessed, because he has the cars to prove his point. Lots of board members use the pp, don't you think we would string him up by his nuts if he ripped us all off? Hell, one guy gets ripped off on here and we all come to his aid, imagine thousands of us! But we are quick to give praise where its due, and its due to Jason for this project. This type of crap from board members who don't know any better is part of what keeps more people from developing new Buick products. Spend the time and money Jason did to test this out, and prove that you are right and he is wrong, then we will listen.
