ok guys...help me TUNE this smc alky kit!

[Two Lane]

Re: PROGRESSIVE CONTROLLERS

Originally posted by Two Lane
Sounds like these should be standard equipment for the alky systems...when will they be available, & at what $$?

TIA!!

from SMC website:==============================

"After much R&D SMC has finally finished work on the 2 new progressive controllers. They are both fully electronic, unlike the basic controller which uses an adjustable mechanical pressure switch. The 2 progressive controllers offer these additional features:

NEW!!! Boost Variable Speed Controller:
Automatically varies the pump speed as boost increases! This will avoid any possible "bog" from injecting too much spray too soon. Especially important on the smaller 4 cylinder cars. ($100 option)

NEW!!! MAF Variable Speed Controller:
Automatically varies pump speed as airflow varies! Taps into your existing MAF sensor output signal and uses it to vary pump speed as airflow changes. Great choice for supercharged applications where boost comes in at low RPMs. Available for any car using a 0-5 volt output MAF.
($100 option)"

HTH

 

[Two Lane]

Originally posted by d0n_3d


boy my downpipe must be hitting the frame still...

i have it wrapped in header wrap but who knows...

Don,

Do you have poly mounts?

 

[Razor]

Ohh boy ..here it is fellas..

This is the requirement needed for any progressive kit to function correctly.

1. You have to be able and set a pressure level when the kit turns on. In other words you need to have it come on at a low boost level so by the time your at high boost, you pump is fully on. So you set it to XYZ boost..lets say 5 PSI. Then you set the pressure at 5 PSI lets say 15-20 PSI out of the pump. This little amount of alcohol will yield a nice little mist that wont hamper performance...and be low consumption. So far thats 2 knobs

2. As the boost increases..you need to have the pump increase its pressure to increase its output. Now ..this is where it gets tricky..you also need to have a control that multiplies this gain increase..so you can have full output at 15 PSI or 30 PSI... Knob3

3. Since it works progressively, must have a brake input terminal..so while the brakes are being applied..wonder where this takes place..your not spraying your motor down and making it sluggish..So you build boost for launching as normal..as soon as you let of the brakes..wooosh goes the pump.

4 Last one..knob4..overboost control...set this to to a level 1 psi over what you normally run..if it hits this level..fires the warning lamp to alert you..

Ahhh..all the above is currently done. unfortunately requires a 3 bar MAP sensor.

I ran into some snags in the R&D of the PAC kit I started back in early April. To which first mistake was not having the brake input..car slowed down .4 tenths from too much too low..next problem was realization that the output of the SMC kit wasnt enough for what I wanted to do.

Next stage of problems came with the difference between the shureflow and the SMC pump is huge as far as output flow/pressure. The SMC pump with 12 volts on an M15 nozzle was 90 PSI. The Shureflow at 6 volts produces the same pressure..Oops i'm letting some cats out

Anyways..d0n_3d..do a search for PAC couple months ago...you have some reading

John..its alive..see if I can do some track testing this thursday nite..this is what separates the men from the boys ...maybe it works ..maybe it doesnt.. one thing for sure..I have a bazzillion hours in this thing..revision..10 by now..its like making chips for a car..

If the track testing proves beneficial..I have some PCB's that need etching

Heres my formula..if this pans ok..I may try making an injector reference input to be added to the gain circuit..so the more injector duty cycle..the more pump speed.

The new SMC kit looks like the Snowperformance.com module in operation. Looks like i'm a little ahead

 

[DMan]

Keep going Razor! I would love to see this thing.

Aside from your proposed controller, and SMCs progressive thing, the other options I am aware of are: 1) Using a pwm-high speed valve from Aquamist. Apparently you can just tap this thing into an injector and it will mimic the injector duty cycle. Turbo_Tim is presently testing one of these, but I don't think they flow enough. 2) Aquamist sells a mappable 3-D progressive computer and driver, the Aquamist MF2 - basically a FAST system for your water alky. About $300.

Personally I have always believed that staging your W-A with multiple solenoids would be a good way to get back *some* of your part-throttle driveability, but then you end up with this mess of wires and plumbing, which require constant attention to ensure its working properly.

 

[mgmshar]

This may be a stupid question, as I'm no alky expert, but I'll ask anyway...

What if you were to do exactly what the designers of the fuel injection system did? In other words, install a pressure regulator and a return line in your alky system to ensure that it was always pre-charged. That way, when you spool-up, the alky will come on instantly, instead of having to fill-up all of the lines between the pump and the nozzle. Helk, if you could make the system "returnless" (like modern fuel injection systems), that would be the ultimate. Maybe something as simple as a "Grainger valve" installed close to the nozzle, to keep the lines pre-charged at a certain pressure.

Any takers?

 

[Two Lane]

Originally posted by mgmshar


How about:

Install a pressure regulator and a return line in your alky system to ensure that it was always pre-charged.


That way, when you spool-up, the alky will come on instantly, instead of having to fill-up all of the lines between the pump and the nozzle.

Excellent question!

 

[Razor]

Well the problems with that are two fold, first if the system is always primed at lets say xyz pressure, when you fire it you dont do anything put inject a lot of alcohol..so you would need it to regulate the amount of alky becuase the requirements at 24 PSI boost are greater than those at 8 PSI boost or 16 for those that think 8 is way too low...then finding a regulator thats alcohol compatible, then you would need a fuel injector that was alcohol(methanol) compatible and a controller to sense engine load..less alone the fitting problems..will not be cheap by any stretch of the imagination. Finally an fuel management unit for the alky..wheww to work proportional with boost pressure.

In theory I think i'm on the rite track making it come on at a low boost level..kinda like a rolling start..1 volt on that shureflow will generate 10 PSI pressure on a number 4 line with a small nozzle.

 

[Eric Stage I]

Steve Yaklin has used a regulated returning system for years. Pump always runs. Works great. I'm tempted to build one. The richness in the lower rpms can be tuned out in the chip (especially a MaxEffort). Also, timing can be applied differently to help with the transitional stuff.

Eric

 

[DMan]

Originally posted by mgmshar
... Maybe something as simple as a "Grainger valve" installed close to the nozzle, to keep the lines pre-charged at a certain pressure.

Any takers?

If by Grainger Valve you mean Check Valve, that will work. I've been using such a setup since the beginning. You will need a solenoid or other device to keep your pressure in the line when the system is not triggered though.