New EPA Regs Make Our Cars Illegal?

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
I can't believe there is so little being said about this subject on this forum.

Read what SEMA has to say about it in their breakdown here: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/201...rect)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=-&__utmk=194345189

What it looks like to me is these new EPA rules will basically make 99% of TurboBuick.com members' cars illegal.

These new regs will likely also make it impossible for any of you to find and buy performance parts for your cars and trucks. The reason why is because the EPA has already stated its intention to go after the manufactures of aftermarket performance parts and related service providers - serving them with potentially huge fines.
 

RANDALL

Banned
The EPA is proposing that: “Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines.”

SEMA VP of Government Affairs contends that the EPA clarified in a January 20, 2016, meeting with SEMA that the proposed rules would reach out to the “light-duty” market—vehicles with a gross vehicle weight ratings (GVWR) of less than 8,500 pounds—despite the proposed rules aiming at larger Heavy- and Medium-duty trucks.

Proposed legislation was buried in a 600 page rules proposal for heavy and medium duty engine standards.
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
Keep reading. That rule was for heavy duty vehicles over 9000 lbs.

WRONG.

From SEMA's website:

Myth: The EPA’s proposal only affects medium- and heavy-duty vehicles.

The EPA inserted the problematic language into a rulemaking that focuses on medium- and heavy-duty vehicles, however, the rulemaking also includes a section entitled “Miscellaneous EPA Amendments.” The language affecting “vehicles used solely for competition” (i.e., racecars) was a “miscellaneous EPA amendment” and would, in fact, affect all light-duty vehicles, not just trucks.
 

SpeedRacerX

Well-Known Member
I haven't checked yet but I wonder how this topic is being received on larger LS....., Camaro......, etc, etc forums?
 

HighMileage

Albany,NY
More attention will be brought to this subject once it begins to be enforced.

I signed the petition as well as wrote my local govt reps. ...one of which is Chuck Schumer,so you know that's not gonna do any good.

This also greatly affects aftermarket sales,so many businesses will be affected.
 

1952ray

Scrambled Dog
EPA, fuck'um. Here in SC, the state doesn't care what you drive, we don't even have vehicle inspection laws. This state and the people here hate the Feds.
 

turbo89

Well-Known Member
Proposing a law, and passing a law are 2 different things .. but even further successfully enforcing this law would be extremely problematic.
There are far too many loopholes that can be used that the EPA can't combat .

It's perhaps a CERTAIN market segment that they are concerned with , but I don't think " RACECARS " are there in the numbers to substantiate EPA concern / enforcement.
 

20psiofevil

Active Member
EPA, fuck'um. Here in SC, the state doesn't care what you drive, we don't even have vehicle inspection laws. This state and the people here hate the Feds.
Same here in sw VA. Although we do have inspection my car passed with a bumper exhaust coming straight off the turbo. The problem is once they start conducting sting operations on small business you wont be able to buy performance parts before to long. Think of it, the tuning companies will only be able to offer tunes that are approved by the epa. We need protection from this new legislation and we need it in writing. Otherwise our hobby will dwindle away.
 

novaderrik

Well-Known Member
Proposing a law, and passing a law are 2 different things .. but even further successfully enforcing this law would be extremely problematic.
There are far too many loopholes that can be used that the EPA can't combat .

It's perhaps a CERTAIN market segment that they are concerned with , but I don't think " RACECARS " are there in the numbers to substantiate EPA concern / enforcement.

you think so?

ask the offroad dirtbike, snowmobile, and lawn mower manufacturers about what the EPA has done to the way they do business.. in the eyes of the EPA, you are breaking the law when you make any kinds of changes to any of these things even if they never leave your yard.. why should race cars be any different?
 

turbo89

Well-Known Member
you think so?

ask the offroad dirtbike, snowmobile, and lawn mower manufacturers about what the EPA has done to the way they do business.. in the eyes of the EPA, you are breaking the law when you make any kinds of changes to any of these things even if they never leave your yard.. why should race cars be any different?

Yes I think so .. I haven't had the EPA stop by and check me on the trail to see if I have a factory installed muffler on my snowmobile , I haven't had them stop by and check my Zero Turn to see if it also has been untouched, I haven't been stopped on the roads and had the EPA check my enduro for factory parts. or my ATV or my Tractors .. they can't enforce this effectively

Let't not get carried away and blow this out of proportion ...

Like I said its one thing to try and pass a law .. its another to enforce it ..

Let me give you an example as to WHY they can not make this work for our cars...
if the law states that FACTORY installed parts must be on vehicles .. the factory parts must be available .. fair statement
This is why OEMS must comply with supporting parts replacements for X years.. especially emissions parts. (typically 10 years )
After this time frame there is a moratorium on replacement parts from an OEM level.

our cars being out of this period MUST rely on the aftermarket for product support .. this is what makes the task of enforcing that so difficult for the EPA .

In Illinois the law clearly states you must have factory emissions equipment unaltered on any vehicle that is registered and driven on any public road,
however I have yet to see a EPA roadblock that does a sniffer or visual test to make sure you don't have a test pipe . There just isn't the resources available to do this and the amount of vehicles that would be in violation are so small compared to the volume that comply that it's not a viable option to enforce.

Ever notice how many EPA check stations have been shutdown ? WHY ??? no funding / resources to continue operation .

I wouldn't panic on this one .. they have very little chance of getting this to pass , let alone enforcing it
 
The epa is involved in tractors and pumps and all kinds of off road industry. Half my tractors are computer controlled and have dpfs on them because of the epa tier laws. Rangers enforce for the epa for OHV vehicles, Atleast in Ca where race bikes are red sticker ed and can only be ridden on public ground certain times of the year. It's a power grab and they don't stop.

The EPA was causing major problems with diesel tuners that were deleting dpfs off trucks and went after some of them a few years back.

Not to mention the EPA has set up roadblocks and sniffers down in La.


sent from deep within a tomato field
 

turbo89

Well-Known Member
The epa is involved in tractors and pumps and all kinds of off road industry. Half my tractors are computer controlled and have dpfs on them because of the epa tier laws. Rangers enforce for the epa for OHV vehicles, Atleast in Ca where race bikes are red sticker ed and can only be ridden on public ground certain times of the year. It's a power grab and they don't stop.

The EPA was causing major problems with diesel tuners that were deleting dpfs off trucks and went after some of them a few years back.

Not to mention the EPA has set up roadblocks and sniffers down in La.


sent from deep within a tomato field


Sure but I doubt you have EPA officials checking your tractors for compliance .. DO they actually come out and verify if you've reverted a Tier 4b or a tractor back to Tier 3 specs .. NO I doubt it ..
Do they plug scanners in to see if you altered the Tune on your tractors ? or trucks ? .. they can go after the installers if they are installing them on OTR vehicles, but to go after the end consumer is far more difficult and the enforcement is resource prohibitive .
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
More attention will be brought to this subject once it begins to be enforced.

By then, it'll be too late.

This isn't a new "law" folks. This is a regulation. Totally different animal. There is no congressional oversight, and congressional approval is not required. This is an in-house rule "change" that is being proposed at the EPA. You and I have no say over it. Right now the only thing that is keeping it from being implemented is a final ruling this coming summer (and the amount of heat we in the car community can turn up on our government representatives to influence them to lobby the EPA to withdraw this regulation).

EPA officials have already stated they only intend (at least initially) to go after the aftermarket performance parts manufacturers and service providers - not individual car owners. But I have to believe it isn't going to stop after all the aftermarket performance parts manufacturers and service providers are forced to close. There are substantial fines they can impose on private individuals, and I believe they intend to collect as much in fines as they can.

Enforcement can be done easily enough with a PC and internet connection. THINK ABOUT IT. (Company websites, social media postings, etc).
 

Darth Fiero

3800 Series II Turbo
Yes I think so .. I haven't had the EPA stop by and check me on the trail to see if I have a factory installed muffler on my snowmobile , I haven't had them stop by and check my Zero Turn to see if it also has been untouched, I haven't been stopped on the roads and had the EPA check my enduro for factory parts. or my ATV or my Tractors .. they can't enforce this effectively

Let't not get carried away and blow this out of proportion ...

Like I said its one thing to try and pass a law .. its another to enforce it ..

I wouldn't panic on this one .. they have very little chance of getting this to pass , let alone enforcing it

This isn't a law. The EPA is calling it a rules change or "clarification". It needs no congressional approval to be passed. It only needs in-house EPA approval (which is scheduled for this summer).

How hard do you think it is going to be for the EPA to fine companies that want to sell you performance parts for your street car? All they have to do is go to that company's website and see what they are selling parts for. Think about how many vendors who support the Turbo Buick community and how many of them only sell performance parts for the Turbo Buick community. How hard do you think it would be for the EPA to find one of those companies in violation of this proposed regulation since the proposed regulation says if the car has a VIN, you can't sell any un-certified (for emissions) parts for it???

If a vendor's website storefront isn't enough evidence, all they would have to do is order a part from said vendor and that would probably be all the proof they would need to impose the fine.
 
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