"New" cam bearings, WTF!!

[DailyDrifter]

Bison does this look like right? Also how is the cam going to locate the bearing to the block? And how much needs to be taken off the thrust surface of the cam (i'm going to assume the thickness of the torrington bearing )?

 

[bison]

Bison does this look like right? Also how is the cam going to locate the bearing to the block? And how much needs to be taken off the thrust surface of the cam (i'm going to assume the thickness of the torrington bearing )?

Yeah. Now just turn the back of the cam down and use the cam thrust to centralize the bearing. Your leaving part of the thrust on the cam for location. You will no longer have to worry about that cam thrust surface. The bearing has plenty of area to seat against. Use the adjustable cam thrust button assembly and get the clearance down. Dont preload the roller bearing. Go down till you can barely see it move back and forth when the cover is torqued down you are gtg.

 

[pajo]

where

Hey Drifter - where did you get-buy the bearing ..?

 

[DailyDrifter]

Yeah. Now just turn the back of the cam down and use the cam thrust to centralize the bearing. Your leaving part of the thrust on the cam for location. You will no longer have to worry about that cam thrust surface. The bearing has plenty of area to seat against. Use the adjustable cam thrust button assembly and get the clearance down. Dont preload the roller bearing. Go down till you can barely see it move back and forth when the cover is torqued down you are gtg.

OK, just cut the back of the cam. I'm still having a hard time picturing how the torrington will sit in there, If I put it (bearing) on the cam it seems like it has too much slop around it? Will the cam button keep it centered once torqued down?

In pic 1 I have the bearing sitting on the cam, it seems once it is slid into the block the bearing will move around.

Pic 2. Which part needs to be turned down, A? Or the very front of the cam where the button goes into? Brainstorm, I guess you would have to machine "A" so the front cam journal can go into the block properly. Should I basically machine the thickness of the bearing off the cam?

Pic 3. Shows how much "slop" there is in between the cam and bearing.

Pic 4. This is what the bearing looks like compared to the block.

Pic 5. This is the repair they made to the block, I think I'm going to take it back and have the machine the front a little so I know it square, but I can't go too much or the cover wont line up with the girdle.


I need a drink, and a Joint!

Hey Drifter - where did you get-buy the bearing ..?

Summit. $11.99 CCA-3110TB

 

[gnxtc2]

Make sure the cam bearings are put in their correct locations.

What were the bearing clearances set at?

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Chuck Leeper]

And, check the depth of the galley plugs...get them in too far, and the next time it'll be the bearing s that are "tango uniform"...

 

[KL Mallender]

I applaud your efforts but there are a few things to keep in mind,
1. Pocket depth or step needs to be at least half of bearing thickness for proper retention.
2. The damage done and repairs needed are going to cause you problems with oiling the distributor drive gear as the passage through camshaft will now be unable to tranfer oil thru nose of cam. A "nozzle" may be added to front cover to spray oil towards gears or maybe relocate turbo oil drain pipe to provide lube.
3. Double check alignment of cam/crank gears as you machine parts, things can get out of hand quickly, be carefull, Good Luck.

Kevin.

 

[DailyDrifter]

Make sure the cam bearings are put in their correct locations.

What were the bearing clearances set at?

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

I was there when the bearings were put in, but not sure what the clearances are. All the oil holes are lined up properly. Im going to order some measuring devices from summit so I can check the block as I put it back together (dial indicator, micrometer, and bore gauges)

And, check the depth of the galley plugs...get them in too far, and the next time it'll be the bearing s that are "tango uniform"...

I think i'll take them out and make sure they are'nt in too far.

I applaud your efforts but there are a few things to keep in mind,
1. Pocket depth or step needs to be at least half of bearing thickness for proper retention.
2. The damage done and repairs needed are going to cause you problems with oiling the distributor drive gear as the passage through camshaft will now be unable to tranfer oil thru nose of cam. A "nozzle" may be added to front cover to spray oil towards gears or maybe relocate turbo oil drain pipe to provide lube.
3. Double check alignment of cam/crank gears as you machine parts, things can get out of hand quickly, be carefull, Good Luck.

Kevin.

Thanks, I feel like I have to re-invent the wheel with this engine .

 

[dlafont]

OK... I have been following this thread and I am now concerned.

I just put together a new engine and installed it in my car. I upgraded my cam using a 210/215 Revolution X Roller Cam Kit from Full Throttle. It didn't appear to include a thrust bearing washer in the kit and I don't think one would fit behind the roller cam anyways.

I installed the roller cam and checked end play with the cam button and it is < 0.010 so everything seems fine in that regard.

So what this thread is telling me is that we always need to have a thrust bearing installed in these cam kits then? The cam I got from Full Throttle appears to not be clearanced correctly to accept the thrust bearing anyways and would need to turned. Correct?

Do you now always need to have this thrust bearing installed with a roller cam from Full Throttle then? Why didn't Full Throttle include this thrust bearing in their kit then? Why didn't Full Throttle also not clearance the back of the cam to accept this added thrust bearing clearance? The flat tappet cam that I replaced didn't have this thrust bearing from what I can remember.

Do I need to now re-install my CAM then with this new thrust bearing and have the cam turned to accept it then?

Thanks

 

[TurboDave]

OK, just cut the back of the cam. I'm still having a hard time picturing how the torrington will sit in there, If I put it (bearing) on the cam it seems like it has too much slop around it? Will the cam button keep it centered once torqued down?

In pic 1 I have the bearing sitting on the cam, it seems once it is slid into the block the bearing will move around.

Pic 2. Which part needs to be turned down, A? Or the very front of the cam where the button goes into? Brainstorm, I guess you would have to machine "A" so the front cam journal can go into the block properly. Should I basically machine the thickness of the bearing off the cam?

Pic 3. Shows how much "slop" there is in between the cam and bearing.

Pic 4. This is what the bearing looks like compared to the block.

Pic 5. This is the repair they made to the block, I think I'm going to take it back and have the machine the front a little so I know it square, but I can't go too much or the cover wont line up with the girdle.


I need a drink, and a Joint!





Summit. $11.99 CCA-3110TB

Am I stupid or something, or is that completely the wrong torrington bearing for that cam?????? It appears to have over a 1/4" of slop size differential on it's inner diameter compared to the cam???? Nothing to center the bearing and keep it there????
Look at how it flops around on the cam? The block has nothing to keep it centered????

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Me too..

Am I stupid or something, or is that completely the wrong torrington bearing for that cam?????? It appears to have over a 1/4" of slop size differential on it's inner diameter compared to the cam???? Nothing to center the bearing and keep it there????
Look at how it flops around on the cam? The block has nothing to keep it centered????

I'm wondering the same thing....

 

[TurboBuRick]

I know for sure this bearing is used on a billet roller but not sure about the cast roller. I just did a cam swap and the cast roller did not have it. The billet roller did. If it required the bearing, I would think the cam would have a shoulder for it to sit on.

What is your take on this Bison?

 

[Steve V]

OK... I have been following this thread and I am now concerned.

I just put together a new engine and installed it in my car. I upgraded my cam using a 210/215 Revolution X Roller Cam Kit from Full Throttle. It didn't appear to include a thrust bearing washer in the kit and I don't think one would fit behind the roller cam anyways.

I installed the roller cam and checked end play with the cam button and it is < 0.010 so everything seems fine in that regard.

So what this thread is telling me is that we always need to have a thrust bearing installed in these cam kits then? The cam I got from Full Throttle appears to not be clearanced correctly to accept the thrust bearing anyways and would need to turned. Correct?

Do you now always need to have this thrust bearing installed with a roller cam from Full Throttle then? Why didn't Full Throttle include this thrust bearing in their kit then? Why didn't Full Throttle also not clearance the back of the cam to accept this added thrust bearing clearance? The flat tappet cam that I replaced didn't have this thrust bearing from what I can remember.

Do I need to now re-install my CAM then with this new thrust bearing and have the cam turned to accept it then?

Thanks

It's not needed unless your block is damaged. Their cam kit is a very good peice. I have used 3 and no issues. Don't worry:smile:

 

[Mike Licht]

With the austemper cam you are fine without it, with a billet cam the material is very hard and the wear surface is very small so without the bearing the billet cam has a tendency to drill into the block. This is one reason I do not like them unless it is a solid roller and then as Kevin mentioned you need to address the oiling problem. If you need help setting up your cam call me.
Mike

 

[bison]

OK, just cut the back of the cam. I'm still having a hard time picturing how the torrington will sit in there, If I put it (bearing) on the cam it seems like it has too much slop around it? Will the cam button keep it centered once torqued down?

In pic 1 I have the bearing sitting on the cam, it seems once it is slid into the block the bearing will move around.

Pic 2. Which part needs to be turned down, A? Or the very front of the cam where the button goes into? Brainstorm, I guess you would have to machine "A" so the front cam journal can go into the block properly. Should I basically machine the thickness of the bearing off the cam?

Pic 3. Shows how much "slop" there is in between the cam and bearing.

Pic 4. This is what the bearing looks like compared to the block.

Pic 5. This is the repair they made to the block, I think I'm going to take it back and have the machine the front a little so I know it square, but I can't go too much or the cover wont line up with the girdle.


I need a drink, and a Joint!





Summit. $11.99 CCA-3110TB

The cam will locate the bearing when its cut properly. You didnt need to weld the front of the block. There was still enough surface there for the bearing to ride against.

 

[bison]

I know for sure this bearing is used on a billet roller but not sure about the cast roller. I just did a cam swap and the cast roller did not have it. The billet roller did. If it required the bearing, I would think the cam would have a shoulder for it to sit on.

What is your take on this Bison?

That is probably the same bearing you are referring to. I use them on all ductile cams. The only mod is cutting the cam to locate it. You have to cut the shoulder for it to work. Its not a drop on part since nothing is there to locate it and it would cause a clearance issue because of the added thickness. Much better thrust capacity. He welded his block which was not needed since the bearing would have contacted the area on the block that was not worn.

 

[bison]

With the austemper cam you are fine without it, with a billet cam the material is very hard and the wear surface is very small so without the bearing the billet cam has a tendency to drill into the block. This is one reason I do not like them unless it is a solid roller and then as Kevin mentioned you need to address the oiling problem. If you need help setting up your cam call me.
Mike

Ive had austemper cams drill the block too. His block was already drilled from a billet setup with the small thrust.

 

[bison]

That block needs to be milled perfectly square on the thrust. They never should have welded anything. Was not needed.

 

[gnxtc2]

Actually the welded part is harder than the block. If the welded area is machined perfect, then you don't need the bearing.

That Torrington bearing is made for the odd fire nosed cams.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[DailyDrifter]

I was talking to them about milling it flush. I'm glad I know the people in the machine shop. I will talk to them tomorrow and see what they can do for me. I'll probably call you sometime this weekend Bison. I also wasnt aware that I could have gotten away without the welding the block.:frown:

Billy, at this point I would rather have it in there for peice of mind. I wish it would have been in there from the begining