My results of front mount on a stock car

[enforcer1]

This is just a "for your information" on my project of putting a front mount intercooler on what is basically a stock 87 GN. Now I know I did not "need" a front mount (I do not need alot of things I have) but I am sure I will grow into it as time goes by.
First off I have stock turbo,stock type green stripe injectors,stock heads etc. I do have a big-mouth cold air system,hooker exhausts,thrasher street chip and the car is running pretty well. I have done all the little things like a hotwired 307 pump,blocked off throttle body water etc, but all in all pretty stock.

I installed a PTE front mount that I bought when they were on sale. After driving it around for several weeks and going to the drag strip a few times here are my results:

As far as overheating on the highway on long trips goes- no overheating at all and in fact my scanmaster showed it was running COOLER at about 155-159. Before the FM I was running around 160-165. I attribute this to the fact that I moved my transmission cooler from in front of the radiator to behind the passenger air dam. I am running a 160 degree thermostat and I have mostly distilled water(there is still some anti freeze in there) and 1 bottle of water- wetter in the stock radiator. I recently had the radiator rodded out ,it definitely needed it. I also have the fan sealed up to the radiator with air conditioner foam. and I cut around the stock baffles so I could continue to use them on the front mount. I did tie wrap the edges and corners so that they were as snug as could be.
Now that was on a 9 hour trip with the ac on on the highway. At around town speeds including sitting in stopped traffic with ac on in 91 degree temps I recorded readings of 171 degrees max. I do have the fan wired so I can turn the hi-speed fan on and I have it on when I am stopped in traffic but have not used it on the highway. Without the fan turned on my max readings are 179-185. Not too bad at all.
At the 1/8 mile track I go to I have noticed my times are more consistant and my speed is slightly higher.
before best was 8.597 at 80.583 with most runs in the 8.63 range at high 79 mph. this was in mid 60 degree temperatures.
after the install of front mount best was 8.524 at 81.7 mph with most runs in the 8.5 range and best speed at 82.754. Now this was in 85 -90 degree temperatures.

These runs were all made on street tires with 93 octane gas with a little zylene at about 20 pounds boost.
I believe that if I could have run in the same temperature range as my first runs the times and mph would have been higher. As it is I am happy.

As for driveability I have noticed a slight slowing in the spooling of the turbo. Have also noticed a power increase when going WOT at about 55-65 mph. It really takes off now.

This info is the results I obtained from the last few weeks. I just wanted to share in case anyone out there was needing the info. Hope someone can use it.
good luck guys!

 

[turbot2112]

glad to here you have no cooling issues. ive always had problems in traffic. maybe ill be o.k. this year with the new radiator.

 

[CraigT]

Originally posted by enforcer1
and I cut around the stock baffles so I could continue to use them on the front mount.

This is very important to do, keeps that area pressurized.


Glad to see this done.

 

[enforcer1]

Yes I also think that the baffle needs to be there to help keep things cool. I was very careful to tie wrap the main baffle to those smaller side ones so there was almost no gap between them.

The foam around the fan also helps alot.

I still need to block the sides of the radiator with some type of pipe foam, theres some large gaps there

 

[gofastr]

JUDGING BY THOSE TIMES, THIS INTERCOOLER HAS COST YOU ALOT OF MONEY, AND NETTED YOU A GAIN THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE NOTICABLE AT ALL ON THE STREET, OR THE TRACK. MONEY WAS BETTER SPENT ELSEWHERE AT THIS POINT. BUT GOOD TEST FOR THE BOARD.

 

[sdteb]

where in tn are you located?

I am in nashville

 

[ijames]

So on a 25-30 deg warmer day you picked up 2.5-3 mph in the 1/8 mile. Ignoring the weather, which understates the gain, that would be closer to 5 mph in the 1/4 which is (IMHO) a typical gain for a frontmount. I don't remember how to convert from 1/8 to 1/4 times and mphs, but a good guess is that you picked up 35-40 hp (going from say 92 to 97 mph in the 1/4 at 3800 lbs). If you can't feel that in the seat of the pants you need new pants . Yes, if you are starting off bone stock there are cheap ways to get hp (K&N, better exhaust, 160 stat), but once you've done that and have set an octane level the big jumps come with turbo, intercooler, and heads, and each step seems to be in the $1000 neighborhood.

 

[TylerDurden]

my experience in doing a similar thing i believe to be nearly the same...i do not have any time slips, but when i put this homeade kenworth IC on i would say i felt a seat of the pants gain with no lag issues....i then put on a te44 a few weeks later, and would say that i felt less of or no gain from the 44 itself....but still didnt see any lag issues...i guess my point being that a FM should benifit any car regardless of turbo...in fact, it should allow you to run a little more boost....now for real world gains over all

look at my sig for new times...my old times were 13.1@101 street and 12.61@106 race with stock turbo/IC
so for the $800 i spent in used turbo/IC i gained .5 ET and 6 mph...in race trim and 5mph in street trim....

 

[ULYCYC]

Those times are pretty good for pump gas and street tires. 8.5 1/8 equals around 13.2 in the 1/4. The Front mount won't help ET that much with the stock setup. But it will allow you to be consistant due to no heat soaking of the intercooler. Keep up the good work.

 

[enforcer1]

Thanks everyone for the replies! My whole point here was to give people an idea what to expect if they were considering a FM. I know many people I talked to were scared of potential overheating problems and luckily I am not experiencing that bug.

GOFASTER- Like I already stated I am very happy with the results.

IJAMES- You are right,I can really feel the power difference especially flooring the go pedal at about 50-60. My main problem is traction, I have since put on some boxed lower control arms and am waiting on my bilstein shocks.

SDTEB- A fellow Tennessean! I'm from knoxville.

TYLERDURDEN-My point exactly. My car is 99.9% street driven and I feel the FM is the way to go to keep the charge cooler,especially when once in traffic. Also I am ready for any future mods.

ULYCYC-Also right, I found the car much more consistant even with the traction problems I am now having. Before the times were more irratic.

Thank you all for the comments.

 

[gn85]

Originally posted by ijames
So on a 25-30 deg warmer day you picked up 2.5-3 mph in the 1/8 mile. Ignoring the weather, which understates the gain, that would be closer to 5 mph in the 1/4 which is (IMHO) a typical gain for a frontmount. I don't remember how to convert from 1/8 to 1/4 times and mphs, but a good guess is that you picked up 35-40 hp (going from say 92 to 97 mph in the 1/4 at 3800 lbs).

Hey Carl,

FWI... I don't have the formula for MPH, but for 1/8 to 1/4 ETs, I use 1.555 X 1/8 = 1/4 ET and that seems to be pretty close.

Enforcer,

That is a very interesting experiment. It sounds like you paid good attention to detail in order to keep things cool. That has been my concern for a FM. It's probably a long way off in my plans, but I'd be interested if you have pics of how you sealed that area up to keep things cool.

 

[equalizer442]

and I cut around the stock baffles so I could continue to use them on the front mount.

what do you mean by cutting around the stock baffles?

im running 20 lb of boost on pump gas on the street and thats pushing it, should i back the boost down a few psi before i install the front mount? what affects does a front mount have on the level of boost, does it make it go up, down, or stay the same?

 

[greg lott]

i am about to install a duttweiller front mount i picked up on ebay the unit itself is like new with all pipes chromed
was real glad to read your imput but i am real confused on the part about cutting around the stock baffels what do you mean by that do you have a photo available? thanks

 

[BoostKillsStres]

There are baffles/skirts that hang down from the core support on just each side of the factory IC scoop, I believe these have to either be removed or sectioned in order for the FMIC pipes to go under the core support since the pipes don't go thru the area the stock IC shroud does. You can see them by looking under the car from either side just in front of the front wheels.

You also have the material that seals the lower area of the rad to the bumper on the back side of the bumper so that area is pressurized by air, may also be what he's talking about.
HTH

 

[1987boosted]

Originally posted by enforcer1
Thanks everyone for the replies! My whole point here was to give people an idea what to expect if they were considering a FM. I know many people I talked to were scared of potential overheating problems and luckily I am not experiencing that bug.

GOFASTER- Like I already stated I am very happy with the results.

IJAMES- You are right,I can really feel the power difference especially flooring the go pedal at about 50-60. My main problem is traction, I have since put on some boxed lower control arms and am waiting on my bilstein shocks.

SDTEB- A fellow Tennessean! I'm from knoxville.

TYLERDURDEN-My point exactly. My car is 99.9% street driven and I feel the FM is the way to go to keep the charge cooler,especially when once in traffic. Also I am ready for any future mods.

ULYCYC-Also right, I found the car much more consistant even with the traction problems I am now having. Before the times were more irratic.

Thank you all for the comments.

I live about 20 mins outside knoxville, you should go to the car meet off of clinton highway, just met a guy with a ttype and saw a gnational up there also...anyhow drop me an email, i may go up there on saturday...some pretty nice cars..and some not so nice ones......my email is darrellandsteph@msn.com if your interested!

 

[1987boosted]

Originally posted by BoostKillsStres
There are baffles/skirts that hang down from the core support on just each side of the factory IC scoop, I believe these have to either be removed or sectioned in order for the FMIC pipes to go under the core support since the pipes don't go thru the area the stock IC shroud does. You can see them by looking under the car from either side just in front of the front wheels.

You also have the material that seals the lower area of the rad to the bumper on the back side of the bumper so that area is pressurized by air, may also be what he's talking about.
HTH

i noticed a drop in freeway temps by having those baffles in place...i would recommend them, supposeby they are there to keep heat from concrete in stop and go traffic from being sucked through the radiator but i have noticed the biggest improvement is in highway driving

 

[enforcer1]

Greg, what I did was on the bottom "mat" like baffle (connects under the radiator support forward to the bumper) is I cut a "T" where each pipe would need to go thru the baffle. I was careful not to go to big there. After the pipes and baffle are in place (you need to tuck the cut baffle up around the pipe snugly) Then I took some tie wraps and tied the large bottom baffle with the 2 smaller side baffles so they were as tight as I could make them (kind of boxing in the front of the radiator) Sorry I dont have any pics but if you look at it you will see what I mean.

As an update I still am not seeing any overheating at all, even with temps in the 90's. I think having the baffles in place is a necessity. also sealing the fan shroud to the radiator,using waterwetter and distilled water, and using a lower temp thermos (I use a 160 degree), plus have a fan control switch to turn on before theres even a chance of overheating. I only use the fan control when I'm stuck in traffic. A good cold air system probably also helps and put your transmission cooler off under the air dam that thing puts out alot of heat.

GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN