My Billet HPQ71 has landed...

[PTE Turbo]

You are probably going to have to rev that little motor. Unless your heads flow like a garden hose, it's going to be hard to do that with any boost less than 27 on a 70 unless the billet 70 turns out to be the sh!t. I have a stock stroke, gn1's with a decent port job but not an extreme one, and a 70gtq. It takes 6K+ rpm and 30 psi to run my numbers. My best ET in the sig was with a 1.55 60'

I think you will find the new Billet 71 has a lot better bottom end.
Harry

 

[JayC]

Im sort of thinking out loud here.

This new billet stuff is bad ass. There really isnt any other way to put it. I think we've reached the limit of what the 3 bolt Buick housing is actually good for simply because you cant control the boost on the freaking things.

Im sure the 71 is going to be the same but case in point. We put a billet 67HPQ on Shane's TFS car with the ISAC alcohol controller to do some testing. Even after porting the hole on the turbine housing as large as it can go with a flapper valve and radiusing out the inside of the housing real nice, even with the flapper swung wide open and the wastegate rod NOT EVEN CONNECTED, the car still makes 23 PSI. I didnt even bother hooking the actuator up and making another pull. We're just gonna have to put an external gate off of the header. I should probably also mention this car has big tube headers which should slow the velocity of the exhaust down some.

Ive been trying to think of an easy way to incorporate an external gate into the setup but again, there just doesnt seem to be one. Having an external gate off of the turbine housing is a waste of time because youre not going to flow any more than your smallest opening and thats the turbine housing wastegate hole. I guess if youre using an external gate you could probably open it up more but we made it pretty big and with no gate inline at all, it really didnt even have much of an effect on controlling the boost.

Maybe its finally getting time to ditch the 3 bolt T3 style housing in favor of the T4 style flange. It would make downpipes easier to install and even tho the PTE 3 bolt housing is really good, Id bet the T4 housing will outflow it.

This isnt a slight on the billet stuff by any means.. its amazing the kind of power and flow these things make.

Thoughts?

 

[Louie L.]

Jay we found similar results with the billet 62-62. Doesnt flow near what the 67 does. But suddenly boost was thru the roof. Wastegate hook up, wastegate hole porting became very critical. These new turbos are moving some major air.

 

[JayC]

Jay we found similar results with the billet 62-62. Doesnt flow near what the 67 does. But suddenly boost was thru the roof. Wastegate hook up, wastegate hole porting became very critical. These new turbos are moving some major air.

It was quite interesting watching the 67 spool up with the wastegate wide open. It was a bit slow building boost but once it hit about 10 PSI, it just took off. It did level off about 22 PSI or so but sheesh... For a street turbo, the spoolup and power are awesome but lack of boost control is going to be a major downer for people wanting to keep TH style downpipes.

Course, I've never been a big fan of the TH style downpipes anyway. Ive always been an external wastegate fan that begrudgingly used the stock actuators because people didnt want to spend the bucks for the external setups. Looks like now they might not have a choice.

I cant wait to get the billet 71s in and try them out. I'll probably stick one on the TFS car and do some back to back testing against the billet 67.

 

[PTE Turbo]

It was quite interesting watching the 67 spool up with the wastegate wide open. It was a bit slow building boost but once it hit about 10 PSI, it just took off. It did level off about 22 PSI or so but sheesh... For a street turbo, the spoolup and power are awesome but lack of boost control is going to be a major downer for people wanting to keep TH style downpipes.

Course, I've never been a big fan of the TH style downpipes anyway. Ive always been an external wastegate fan that begrudgingly used the stock actuators because people didnt want to spend the bucks for the external setups. Looks like now they might not have a choice.

I cant wait to get the billet 71s in and try them out. I'll probably stick one on the TFS car and do some back to back testing against the billet 67.

We could build a better 3 bolt housing be incorporating an external gate. It might not fit exactly in the stock location, and require a v-band down pipe joint because we would want to get the HPS turbine in it. OMG that would rock !
Problem is it we would want it allowed in the race classes before we build it not outlawed after we build it. So I am not sure how to fix that problem

Harry

 

[JayC]

We could build a better 3 bolt housing be incorporating an external gate. It might not fit exactly in the stock location, and require a v-band down pipe joint because we would want to get the HPS turbine in it. OMG that would rock !
Problem is it we would want it allowed in the race classes before we build it not outlawed after we build it. So I am not sure how to fix that problem

Harry

External gates are allowed in TSM.. The factory appearing classes probably would never allow it but if the housing is available to everyone, I dont see that there would be an issue.

Id like to see it happen. Seriously, Harry.. you guys have reached the limit of the current 3 bolt housing. I actually have an idea of a way we might be able to make something anyone could use but Im going to have to look at some stuff I have laying around the shop tomorrow and talk to Jeff and see if he thinks its feasible.

A new housing would be the way to go. Being able to use the HPS turbine would be a bonus. Selling these turbos to people who expect to be able to use them with factory style setups is just going to lead to people getting upset and as awesome as this stuff is, that would be a shame.

Truthfully, I wish everyone would just make the jump to the T4 style flange and considering that like you said, the turbo wouldnt be in the exact stock location and would require a new downpipe.. it makes a strong arguement against reinventing the wheel. Course, having the gate being able to integrate directly off of the housing would be badass.

If you decide to do it, Id love the opportunity to do some testing. Since we do all our own fab work in house, I could probably have something up and running in a couple of days. In the meantime, Im going to look at what we have around the shop and do some measuring and plotting. I have an idea for a crazy downpipe setup that could actually control one of these monsters

 

[Limited87]

Yeah, Bob is always fun to talk to! Are you going to the BPG race?

Yes, I will be there. Any idea if these turbos be legal for TSM now or will it have to wait till next year?

 

[Two T's]

looks good real clean setup great job hope it works out for you

 

[Bent6]

It was quite interesting watching the 67 spool up with the wastegate wide open. It was a bit slow building boost but once it hit about 10 PSI, it just took off. It did level off about 22 PSI or so but sheesh... For a street turbo, the spoolup and power are awesome but lack of boost control is going to be a major downer for people wanting to keep TH style downpipes.

Course, I've never been a big fan of the TH style downpipes anyway. Ive always been an external wastegate fan that begrudgingly used the stock actuators because people didnt want to spend the bucks for the external setups. Looks like now they might not have a choice.

I cant wait to get the billet 71s in and try them out. I'll probably stick one on the TFS car and do some back to back testing against the billet 67.

I ran into the same isssue with a 6765 on my street car. Ported the hole to the max and with an external gate off the turbine housing I got the same result. Ditched it all and fabbed up a 3.5" DP with the gate off the header - problem solved. I agree about the stock type WGs - I've always preferred externals but there again I'm not hung up on the stock appearing thing. I think ALOT of the bolt-on guys are going to run into this issue - these things flow some serious air.

 

[JayC]

Im curious how big you ended up making the hole, Will.. and how big a tube did you use off the downpipe flange to your external gate? Ive got an idea how to plumb up a TurboSmart 50 with a 2 inch tube but Im not sure how big I can get the hole in the turbine housing.

 

[Bent6]

I was trying to get away with using an old ATR 3" DP with the external gate provision and a 38mm Tial. The tubing for the gate was something like 1.5" which matched up with a 38mm. I ported matched the hole on the housing to the DP tube and radiused the crap out of it. I don't think there is quite enough meat there for a 2" but I may be wrong - that is definitely what you need but I don't know how much the 90degree turn coming out of the housing makes. Rather than hacking up that ATR DP, I just used 2" tubing off the header to a 44mm Tial dumping back into a 3.5" DP. Now I can control it as low as I want to go. You are very correct about the 3-bolt housings being the limiting factor on these turbos.

 

[Limited87]

9 seconds at last!!!!!! YES!

We have another 109 in the 9s!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Can I say for the record I love this new turbo? lol This turbo spools almost instantly like my GT70 P trim except pulls WAAY harder!! It is absolutly awesome on the street with next to zero lag and hits like a freight train!

I got out to the track at lunch time today for one pass before I had to go back into work. I havent had time to dial the car in perfectly and I had a ballpark safe tune with 25 psi on it. The car is basically out of control on the street so tuning it perfect there is about a joke. I had to ease out of it at the end about 1200 ft because it started to get to lean for my taste. The car still went 9.90@138 letting out of it. It blew the tires off with a terrible 1.55 60ft but still managed to go 111 in the 1/8th. Its best prior was 108 with the GT70.

You got to love these cars. Full weight 3650#s, cold a/c, overdrive trans, full exhaust and drove to the track and runs 9s and drove home. Not bad for a V6. :wink:

I got to give Big thanks to Red Armstrong/Quad Air(chip,advise), Vince Janis(2004R) of Janis Transmissions, David Buschur of Buschur Racing.(turbo, wastegate, boost controller, exc exc.)

Cant wait to get some solid time tuning on it and turn it up!

Brian Lorenz
GSCA 3232

 

[GNBRETT]

We have another 109 in the 9s!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Can I say for the record I love this new turbo? lol This turbo spools almost instantly like my GT70 P trim except pulls WAAY harder!! It is absolutly awesome on the street with next to zero lag and hits like a freight train!

I got out to the track at lunch time today for one pass before I had to go back into work. I havent had time to dial the car in perfectly and I had a ballpark safe tune with 25 psi on it. The car is basically out of control on the street so tuning it perfect there is about a joke. I had to ease out of it at the end about 1200 ft because it started to get to lean for my taste. The car still went 9.90@138 letting out of it. It blew the tires off with a terrible 1.55 60ft but still managed to go 111 in the 1/8th. Its best prior was 108 with the GT70.

You got to love these cars. Full weight 3650#s, cold a/c, overdrive trans, full exhaust and drove to the track and runs 9s and drove home. Not bad for a V6. :wink:

I got to give Big thanks to Red Armstrong/Quad Air(chip,advise), Vince Janis(2004R) of Janis Transmissions, David Buschur of Buschur Racing.(turbo, wastegate, boost controller, exc exc.)

Cant wait to get some solid time tuning on it and turn it up!

Brian Lorenz
GSCA 3232

What motor mods? 138 Nice. Oh nevermind I see ur motor mods. I'm sure it has quite a bit left in it to.

 

[ttypewhite]

Congrats on a job well deserved, that's awesome

 

[John Wilde]

We have another 109 in the 9s!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Can I say for the record I love this new turbo? lol This turbo spools almost instantly like my GT70 P trim except pulls WAAY harder!! It is absolutly awesome on the street with next to zero lag and hits like a freight train!

I got out to the track at lunch time today for one pass before I had to go back into work. I havent had time to dial the car in perfectly and I had a ballpark safe tune with 25 psi on it. The car is basically out of control on the street so tuning it perfect there is about a joke. I had to ease out of it at the end about 1200 ft because it started to get to lean for my taste. The car still went 9.90@138 letting out of it. It blew the tires off with a terrible 1.55 60ft but still managed to go 111 in the 1/8th. Its best prior was 108 with the GT70.

You got to love these cars. Full weight 3650#s, cold a/c, overdrive trans, full exhaust and drove to the track and runs 9s and drove home. Not bad for a V6. :wink:

I got to give Big thanks to Red Armstrong/Quad Air(chip,advise), Vince Janis(2004R) of Janis Transmissions, David Buschur of Buschur Racing.(turbo, wastegate, boost controller, exc exc.)

Cant wait to get some solid time tuning on it and turn it up!

Brian Lorenz
GSCA 3232

Brian,

Congratulations it sounds like you are off to a heck of a start!!!
How much converter would your recommend for this turbo?

 

[turbo6mike]

Congrats Brian!I knew this was coming.Hopefully I can make it next time you go.

 

[Limited87]

Congrats on a job well deserved, that's awesome

Thanks man!! It has been a journey of sorts.

Brian,

Congratulations it sounds like you are off to a heck of a start!!!
How much converter would your recommend for this turbo?

Thanks John. I am running an old AC 16930 converter. Its around a 3600 stall and seems to really work great. I would say anything 3400-3800 would be a nice sweet spot for this unit. "Might" even get away with a 3200 with the right tune. Im def impressed with it over what I had in all aspects!

 

[mturbo87]

We have another 109 in the 9s!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Can I say for the record I love this new turbo? lol This turbo spools almost instantly like my GT70 P trim except pulls WAAY harder!! It is absolutly awesome on the street with next to zero lag and hits like a freight train!

I got out to the track at lunch time today for one pass before I had to go back into work. I havent had time to dial the car in perfectly and I had a ballpark safe tune with 25 psi on it. The car is basically out of control on the street so tuning it perfect there is about a joke. I had to ease out of it at the end about 1200 ft because it started to get to lean for my taste. The car still went 9.90@138 letting out of it. It blew the tires off with a terrible 1.55 60ft but still managed to go 111 in the 1/8th. Its best prior was 108 with the GT70.

You got to love these cars. Full weight 3650#s, cold a/c, overdrive trans, full exhaust and drove to the track and runs 9s and drove home. Not bad for a V6. :wink:

I got to give Big thanks to Red Armstrong/Quad Air(chip,advise), Vince Janis(2004R) of Janis Transmissions, David Buschur of Buschur Racing.(turbo, wastegate, boost controller, exc exc.)

Cant wait to get some solid time tuning on it and turn it up!

Brian Lorenz
GSCA 3232

Great job Brian, Vince told me at Quaker lube in Canton, Hope I Do not need that turbo.

 

[BEATAV8]

congrats on the 9 sec pass!

 

[Limited87]

Congrats Brian!I knew this was coming.Hopefully I can make it next time you go.

Thanks Mike! Sounds good! Cant wait to hear your thoughts on your new set up.

Great job Brian, Vince told me at Quaker lube in Canton, Hope I Do not need that turbo.

Thanks Mike. I hoped I didnt need one either but the GT70 was just barely gonna get it done if it did. This one has so much potential now for deep 9s even with my limiting set up. It is a few bucks but it sure is a nice piece.

congrats on the 9 sec pass!

Thanks bud!