is it a buick t type or grand national or both?

[mike lewis]

i am buying a 1985 t type buick.it has black paint, chrome bumpers, chrom grill. from what i have been trying to find on body pieces, the spoiler was only on grand nationals as there were the spoiler lip edges on the rear quarter panels to smooth it all together. the one i am looking at has the spoiler. it has an all grey interior. i am trying to find out if there were any grand nationals made with chrome bumpers and grill or was it possible to have it done from factory/dealer? i have the vin and pretty much have it decoded and i am thinking it says it is a grand national according to the gnttype vin decoding on their website. here is the vin if anybody can help me out. 1G4GK4791FP418356

Example: 1G4GK479XFP400001 for a 1985 Grand National:

1 = Manufacturing Country (USA)
G = Manfacturer (GM)
4 = Division (1=Chevy, 2=Pontiac, 3=Oldsmobile, 4=Buick, 5=GMC, 6=Cadillac)
G = Series (G body)
K = Sales/Option level (Regal T-Type)
4 = Body Code (2 Door Coupe)
7 = Second Digit
9 = Engine Code (LM9 3.8L SFI Turbo
X - Check Digit
F = Model year (F = 1985)
P = Plant Code (Pontiac Michigan)
400001 = Serial number

 

[mike lewis]

I should've mentioned also I am buying this car from my mechanic in a bit of a trade deal. He said it runs, and if it doesn't he's assured me he will get it finished assembled and running with the cost that I paying for it. Which is about $9000. I can see from my eye and in multiple areas the car is originally black. It just has finishing bondo on in very small thickness. The gaps in the doors are all near perfect. Car only has 70,000 original Kms on it with a new turbo installed. Interior is in nice shape just needs a vacuuming.

 

[Phoneguy]

The VIN will NOT tell you if it is a GN !!!
9K for that??? Sounds high !
Post a picture of the trunk label, if it isnt there I would be highly suspicious. The GNs did not have solid grey interior ! RUN...

Bryan

 

[mike lewis]

im pretty sure that its a t type. but did t types come with a spoiler on the trunk lid? and itll be all finished turn key ready for $9000. is $9000 too much for a 1985 buick regal t type? i mean arent all the parts (minus interior trim) the same as the grand national? like the mechanical moving parts?

 

[Heisenberg]

It is in all likelihood called in the TR world - a WH1.
WH1 was a special order paint / trim option
Part of the D84 Designer Series option package

Interesting that you point out the spoiler and your thought that only Grand Nationals came from the factory with rear spoilers.
Actually - the WH1 is the only non-Grand National to come with a factory installed rear spoiler.

In a way - the WH1 is as you say - both.
They are much sought after and beloved - due to their limited production numbers and striking appearances.
Sadly though, many however have been painted solid black, or "Grand Nationalized" over the years.

Now.
See if there is a SPID label affixed to the underside of the trunk deck lid.
This should identify what options were on the car.
somewhere on the tag should say "WH1"
I'm betting

To also verify if it is a WH1 - you can look at the paint tag mounted on the cowl; under the hood, driver's side.
It should say:
19U; 15M; 19L
19 Code = Lamp Black on the upper and lower
15 - Astral Silver in the middle

You may also find remnants of the black pinstriping by looking carefully at door edges, etc.

For more detailed info:
http://www.butchthecat.com/wh1regal/

This car (WH1) can be expensive to restore to it's original condition, due to the complexity of the paint scheme, the pinstriping, the colored bumper fileres, the chrome trim, etc etc.

Not to rain on your parade - but $9K is a little too high to pay for a Hot Air WH1 needing restoration.
Actually - a lot high - but that's raining.

 

[notacarlo]

Uh dude....no. No no no.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[notacarlo]

Uh dude....no. No no no.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Critters have been setting up shop under that hood. $9k no way.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[Heisenberg]

im pretty sure that its a t type. but did t types come with a spoiler on the trunk lid? and itll be all finished turn key ready for $9000. is $9000 too much for a 1985 buick regal t type? i mean arent all the parts (minus interior trim) the same as the grand national? like the mechanical moving parts?

You may get to know Bryan.
He tells it like it is.
Trust me - I know.

And yes - $9K is way high for what we see in those pictures.
You have no idea how much money you can drop in a minute on these cars - just to make them run - let alone restore them.

$9K is almost way high for a restored Hot Air car.

Maybe not a perfectly restored WH1 - but to your point - the 1985 is still a Hot air car.

I know I'll get flamed by my HA friends, but they simply are not in the same league performance or price wise with the intercooled LC2 1986 & 1987 models. Period.
Always an exception to that rule however.
Some nice 1984 Grand Nationals can fetch some money.
They have the leather Lear Siegler interiors however.

 

[mike lewis]

the $9000 includes getting it painted and reassembled. but as far as mechanical components are concerned, is it the same as a grand national?

 

[Heisenberg]

the $9000 includes getting it painted and reassembled. but as far as mechanical components are concerned, is it the same as a grand national?

Except for 1982 - there is no significant performance difference between a T type, a Turbo T, or a Grand National.
It was only paint and trim difference.

1982 was an outlier.
There was no T-Type Regal.
Just a Sport Coupe (Turbo)

However, any of those models had to come with certain basic items.
FE3 suspension, LM9 engine in the case of you - 1985.
200R4 BRQ trans (slide under your car and see if the trans tag says that)
But you can have some that came with G80 posi, some didn't, and a few other minor things like aluminum bumper supports ets, that could have a (minor) effect on performance.

 

[Heisenberg]

the $9000 includes getting it painted and reassembled. but as far as mechanical components are concerned, is it the same as a grand national?

If it is a WH1 - then what does the repainting include?
Because if it is a WH1 - it requires a detailed paint scheme and pinstriping.
If you paint it black - it's a - I dunno - a 1985 Black Turbo Regal - without a pedigree

 

[Heisenberg]

You do know you can buy finished 1986 or 1987 LC2 powered cars, even black ones, here on the board for that or less money?

 

[Heisenberg]

Take a poll - who enjoys working on LM9 more than LC2.
You will not see many hands raised.
It's a niche of a niche.

 

[Heisenberg]

the $9000 includes getting it painted and reassembled. but as far as mechanical components are concerned, is it the same as a grand national?

This is an example of a what we call a WE4 (mine)
Not to beat you up - but just to give you a reference point - I bought this car for $9500.
As it shows in the pictures.
The picture was taken the day I drove it home.
That included the $4000 worth of mods on it.

There is a huge difference in this 1987 WE4 and a 1985 WH1.
And only 500 bucks in this current situation
Jus sayin'.

 

[mike lewis]

are there any decent pictures somewhere on the internet showing the paint scheme and the pinstriping and the coloured bumper fileres? what is/are the bumper fileres or fillers? did the wh1 come with all grey interior? and what would you pay for a wh1? would you still pay as much for it if it were painted black? what would you pay for a t type?

 

[Heisenberg]

Poor Mike,

We older guys were really only trying to help,and save him from himself - but we probably ruined the poor kid's dream.

 

[mike lewis]

my computer is slow at refreshing so i havent seen your posts as fast... i havent bought the car yet. but going through it inside i found a paper and my mechanic bought it off the owner for $6500 as it was in the photos. for him to make some money, what should i then be paying him for it? if its a wh1, or a t type? and that is a really nice we4. but if the car were left stock original condition, in 15 years wouldnt it be worth more than a car with not stock mods?

 

[charlief1]

Please read the title of each section since it gives you an idea of what questions will get the best info for. How to means "how I did it, fabrication means How I fabricated something, Engine means anything related to the mechanical parts of the engine, ect. There are stickys at the top of each section that can help you out as well so don't ignore them.

 

[Heisenberg]

are there any decent pictures somewhere on the internet showing the paint scheme and the pinstriping and the coloured bumper fileres? what is/are the bumper fileres or fillers? did the wh1 come with all grey interior? and what would you pay for a wh1? would you still pay as much for it if it were painted black? what would you pay for a t type?

Wheeeww...slow down kid.

I posted the link for the Butche's WH1 know-it-all page.
Go there - or you know...that thing called...Google?
Butch's site shows detailed images of the paint scheme, the pinstriping etc etc.

Yes - the WH1 basically came with the T-Type interior; i.e. velour
Not always Grey though.
Visit Butch's site - his is maroon interior.
Bweavy knows alot more about WH1s - he has a WH1 fetish.
He will tell you they made some with tan interiors.

I would pay my daughter for a pristine 1986 WH1 w moonroof
Or - upwards of 15K or more
But heck, last month there was a beautiful 1986 WH1 for sale on the board - for like - I dunno - 10?

I'd have to see the 1985 WH1 to which you refer.
Because, we simply can't see any real money in the car you posted pictures of.
To be blunt - $3-4K
Painted well, interior nice? ..and oh - runs good....OK $6K ...maybe

If it were painted black?
Bout the same

For a T type?
A 1985 T type?
If it was pristine or at least nicely restored? - ummmm..maybe 5, 6K
Then I'd rip out the LM9 & BRQ and install the LC2 and BRF.

 

[Heisenberg]

my computer is slow at refreshing so i havent seen your posts as fast... i havent bought the car yet. but going through it inside i found a paper and my mechanic bought it off the owner for $6500 as it was in the photos. for him to make some money, what should i then be paying him for it? if its a wh1, or a t type? and that is a really nice we4. but if the car were left stock original condition, in 15 years wouldnt it be worth more than a car with not stock mods?

LOL...lotta questions or statements there.

OK - #1 - Your mechanic overpaid - doesn't mean you have to
Ask the guys on this board how many got hosed when they sold a car.

Answered the basic question of value on my other post.
Maybe 4 or 5 grand.
But realize something - alot of us have been doing this for years, so we bottom fish, and know the price points.
And are patient.
Hard to be patient when you're 22 and itching to get that Grand National - I know.
But please try.
We only want the best for you.

Thanks on the WE4.
I'm proud yes - but that shows you what you can get for 9 grand if you have patience.

Are you shooting for that Barrett Jackson concours type resale market?
Please turn the channel.
It's nonsense and mushes your brain.
Sure if you kept it bone stock, and detailed, yeah - they tend to get good money.
But so do tastefully, reasonably modded ones.
To the guys in the know - some desire a all original, car in a bubble version - others are looking to take advantage of some other poor saps time and money.
All depends.