Hydraboost noise/oil foaming

[Chuck Leeper]

Been working on this for several days.. No cure found.
Unit is on a 65 Impala w/ a type 1 pump/reservoir combo.
The boost is new, as is the pump, and lines.
Once filled, we turned the steering side to side at least 40 times, added fliud as needed. Found a leak, fixed it.
The HB return is tee'd at the gear return port w/ -6 line. The return then goes thru a filter to the can.

Once we decided to start the engine, the pump immediately became loud. Shut down, and added fluid. Same result. Jacked the car up, turned the wheels an other 20 turns. Same noise, but greatly diminished, if no steer input. Tried the brakes. As soon as the pedal is touched, the noise starts. Could hear it for a block.
Shut down, and checked fluid. Removing the cap resulted in a huge puddle. Oil looked like soapy water, as it was totally aerated. Let it sit, and the level returns to near full.

Some say that it's absolutely necessary to have a separate return port in the reservoir. Some say no.
No leaks, all new parts, wondering if the return plumbing is the issue

NE1 have such experience? If so, what was the "cure"???

TIA,

 

[1KWIKSIX]

Chuck,

Maybe reach out to TURBOELKY & Toby_Goodmk, both seem to have lots of experience with HydroBoost and this issue.
Maybe try a PSC Power Steering Reservoir. Seems to have solved this problem for these guys.

https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/psc-power-steering-reservoir-race-car-shit.451861/
https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/power-steering-bleed-with-hb.434804/page-2#post-3663150

dave

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Chuck,

Maybe reach out to TURBOELKY & Toby_Goodmk, both seem to have lots of experience with HydroBoost and this issue.
Maybe try a PSC Power Steering Reservoir. Seems to have solved this problem for these guys.

https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/psc-power-steering-reservoir-race-car-shit.451861/
https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/power-steering-bleed-with-hb.434804/page-2#post-3663150

dave

Thanks for the tip...
We were discussing this res issue, last nite. The "can" res on this old style pump is not the best for volume.
We've pretty much ruled out the return line design thru online searches, w/ many others reporting no issues.
The original pump had no noise issues w/o the HB. It was changed because it leaked.
We are now focusing on the relief valve failure/sticking. possibly, the valve is allowing oil flow to circulate, rather than flow thru the system. Another from the "rebuild wonders" at Cardone.
More later!

 

[mikestertwo]

I did this mod on a '65 Olds 442 years ago with no issues. I pulled the system off of a Olds diesel car. The pump had a separate return line for the hydraboost in the pump cover. There was no filter. I'm sure there was a reason GM plumbed it this way. It does take a little time to get the air bled out of the system on first install.

 

[haywire4130]

A couple thoughts:
when you are bleeding the system, try gently applying the brake while you turn the wheel. I do this when i flush the power steering fluid annually on my 2500hd pickup. The pattern is- wheel straight, apply brake gently, then slowly steer to one side, release brake, return to center, apply brake again and steer to opposite side. Repeat a couple times (when doing a flush you would repeat until fluid runs clean)
A tee for the return side isnt ideal, sometimes they work but not always. You could try a "y" type fitting as a bandaid. I had the same issue when i first did mine and ended up fabbing up a new reservoir with 2 returns that enter the can and cause a swirl pattern in the fluid with the pump feed in the bottom center of the reservoir. Any tumbling of the returned fluid can cause aeration. I can post pics when i get a minute to get to the garage.
Another thing that helps with aeration is to add some lucas power steering goo to the system, about a quarter bottle does the trick.
Does your booster have an accumulator in it? Mine did and during winter storage the seal must have gave up because i had fluid pushing out the cap vent when i went to take it out in the spring. Just something to check

 

[Jerryl]

There are two distinct issues possible;
Air in the system; This has to be removed
Aeration; Similar to a PCV catch can, a pressure drop is needed to allow expansion/separation. Increased reservoir volume helps tremendously.

I have a "T fitting" on my car and while it works, I don't care for it. A true "Y" or added port makes more sense to me with the current volume/system.

 

[No disintegrations]

Sadly if it is a "rebuilt" unit, they are majorly suspect these days. I got 2 different power steering pump for my wife's dd Honda. They both had different problems which tells me they just paint old junk and take people's money at some places.

 

[earlbrown]

When AAV stopped exchanging my powermaster I really wanted to stay with a powered brake system and I did a lot of research on hydroboost. It was just too iffy with adding the extra load on the PS pump.


How fixed is the HB system on this car? If it wouldn't be too much trouble to remove, maybe a powermaster type setup off of an Astro van... I don't know all the specifics but I was seriously going to find one and play with it before I broke down and went vacuum.

 

[TURBOELKY]

First, if the pump was quiet without any issues before the hydroboost install, it’s very unlikely a pump problem UNLESS it was damaged upon first and second startup which can happen quick.

Starting off with a T in-line is already not the best ideal. Yes I know the aftermarket kits come with them and I’ve used a T with success, I did have one problem with my own hydroboost not so long ago.
I used a T and installed a filter (which are directional usually) and had too much resistance on the return line FROM the hydroboost to the T. The brakes would engage and the oil would become arrated.

I shortened up the length of hose on the return line and removed the filter and continued with using the T and it was fine.
Currently I modify the reservoir with a separate return for the HB unit, and install a filter and cooler on the return line FROM the gear box to the original return line on the reservoir.

Being you have a type 1 pump, I would modify it just the same, add a return port with a AN bulkhead -6 fitting (or weld in a -6) and use that as the return line FROM the hydroboost unit. Use the original return line off the gear box, install filter between gear box and reservoir.

Hope that helps, it’s actually pretty basic and easy to do.

Turboelky.

 

[mikestertwo]

First, if the pump was quiet without any issues before the hydroboost install, it’s very unlikely a pump problem UNLESS it was damaged upon first and second startup which can happen quick.
Starting off with a T in-line is already not the best ideal. Yes I know the aftermarket kits come with them and I’ve used a T with success, I did have one problem with my own hydroboost not so long ago.
I used a T and installed a filter (which are directional usually) and had too much resistance on the return line FROM the hydroboost to the T. The brakes would engage and the oil would become arrated.
I shortened up the length of hose on the return line and removed the filter and continued with using the T and it was fine.
Currently I modify the reservoir with a separate return for the HB unit, and install a filter and cooler on the return line FROM the gear box to the original return line on the reservoir.
Being you have a type 1 pump, I would modify it just the same, add a return port with a AN bulkhead -6 fitting (or weld in a -6) and use that as the return line FROM the hydroboost unit. Use the original return line off the gear box, install filter between gear box and reservoir.
Hope that helps, it’s actually pretty basic and easy to do.

Turboelky.

I agree. An easy path would be to get the complete pump from a late 70's Oldsmobile diesel car and install it with no filter. The filter isn't necessary and only causes resistance in the return line.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Update: After some 100+ lock to lock turns, adding oil to replace the foam, tightening and retightening fittings, the fiasco has apparently ended.
The system is now calmed down, and the oil is circulating w/o evidence of air entrainment.
We'll see, as it's going on the road, tomorrow.

Thanks all, for the responses.

 

[haywire4130]

When AAV stopped exchanging my powermaster I really wanted to stay with a powered brake system and I did a lot of research on hydroboost. It was just too iffy with adding the extra load on the PS pump.


How fixed is the HB system on this car? If it wouldn't be too much trouble to remove, maybe a powermaster type setup off of an Astro van... I don't know all the specifics but I was seriously going to find one and play with it before I broke down and went vacuum.

The system on the astrovan is still a hydroboost and will interchange with the hot air buick booster, the only difference is they added an accumulator (so you can habe a couple stops if it throws the belt or the engine stalls) and the mounting bracket and rod are different.

I started with a used hot air booster, that one started leaking so i swapped the rod and bracket onto a used astrovan booster. The accumulator started leaking internally and the gas (nitrogen?) pushed a bunch of fluid out of the cap so i bought a new ac delco booster for a 2500hd pickup and swapped the rod and bracket onto that. Its been trouble free ever since and stops incredible.

 

[No disintegrations]

Update: After some 100+ lock to lock turns, adding oil to replace the foam, tightening and retightening fittings, the fiasco has apparently ended.
The system is now calmed down, and the oil is circulating w/o evidence of air entrainment.
We'll see, as it's going on the road, tomorrow.

Thanks all, for the responses.

Was it jacked up doing the turns lock to lock? Maybe it should be on the ground? I wonder if the weight of the car and having more load on the system pressurizes the oil more thus bleeding faster?
(Monday quarter backing at this point)