How much boost on E85 with factory longblock

turb0buick57

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Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Starting to consider running E85, figure I have all winter to make up my mind. I am wondering how much boost and timing can you run on E85 with a stock longblock, Ta49, v4 intercooler and 80lb injectors?

I figure there is plenty enough fuel with those injectors for stock heads/ta49 so im curious how much boost/timing E85 can handle without detonating with that combo. Anyone running similiar?
 
What fuel pump?
I'd start out at 25 psi and 20-25 degrees of timing and work your way up.
A single walbro may not handle that though if that's all youbhave for a pump

Edit: just saw your sig. You may need more pump. A XP is a walbro with the pressure relief pushed in. I would try it but be careful.
 
You will not detonate on e85. You will be able to run the turbo with the wastegate wired shut if you can feed it enough fuel.
 
Thanks for the responses. Planning on upgrading the fuel pump since its probably 10years old, but wanted to retain factory lines. Think I read about every e85 post, thought I saw larger turbos and ported heads on e85 with a single pump but at the end of its volume, so I was assuming I would have enough pump and not need a double??

Will have to look into the fuel pump setup farther.
 
Maybe one of those Deatchwerks (sp?) pumps? I would not trust a 10 year old pump on an E85 switch..it may not like the new fuel. My S2 ran fine on a double pumper w/ a -10 feed (stock feed as return) w/ a 74 turbo at 22lbs, that setup is gone now...but it worked fine for 2 years. It would be a good idea to throw a -8 feed in & use the stock feed as the return...this is a safe start IMO.
 
I ran 26lbs of boost on a 120000mile unopened block with a te45a turbo and stock intercooler to the tune of 11.63
This was with a still unknown fuel pump xfi and 75lb injectors...E-85 is the best thing since sliced bread...it just takes a good fuel system to keep a "healthy" motor fed...ask me how i know:wink:
 
When I started running E85 4 years ago on a 109, I had no problem running 30psi+ @ 26 degrees of timing...
 
Thanks for the responses. Planning on upgrading the fuel pump since its probably 10years old, but wanted to retain factory lines. Think I read about every e85 post, thought I saw larger turbos and ported heads on e85 with a single pump but at the end of its volume, so I was assuming I would have enough pump and not need a double??

Will have to look into the fuel pump setup farther.

Upgrade the whole fuel system if you have money.

Otherwise the basics:
1)Replace the rubber hose going from the fuel tank sender to hardlines with teflon or a methanol-compatible line (jegs pro flo200 works and is cheap), and anywhere else in the fuel lines where there is rubber. Ethanol eats rubber.
2)Upgrade the wiring (ie-hotwire kit) to your pump
3)Get a good high-flow 25 or 40 micron SS filter and put it before the fuel rails, as close as possible. Kinsler sells the only 25 micron SS element that I know of for EFI.
4)The largest in-tank pump that I know of is the one sold my Racetronix, the 386lph pump. If possible, run a large single compared to 2 smaller pumps. However Racetronix also sells a complete drop-in dual in-tank double pumper setup as well. That will flow plenty.
5)Get 120s if you plan on running a larger turbo in the future. (that is, if you haven't already bought the 80s)
6)Make sure to have a good fuel pressure regulator if you plan on upgrading your pump. You may not need to, depending on your goal, however I would look around and see what people are using. Many people get away with the stock-style BGC or Bosch AFPR's.

Personally I upgraded all the feed and return lines to -10 and -6. Also went with a Weldon 2345A just to be safe on fueling. We made our own hotwire kit with 10ga wire so that the line is not struggling to send the proper voltage/amps to the pump.

I would highly look into the fuel filter as close to the fuel rail as possible. If there is anything that will be caught in the fuel lines and picked up, you want the filter to have as much room as possible to be able to "Catch" the debris. Having a pre and post-pump filter is silly when you think about it...if you catch the dirt before the pump,then why a filter right after? Why not further down the line so that if anything else is going to come up from the lines you'll catch that too.

Also checkout dual-feeding your stock fuel rail. You can pull the shrader valve out of the drivers side and run a -4 line into there. I initially did a -6 feed into a T to the passenger side, and ran -4 into the drivers side. Although its only a -4, its still better than nothing at all, and will help with preventing the driver's side bank from going lean (ideally). If you do this, you could run your filter right before the T in the line, that way you'll have almost all the fuel lines covered in terms of catching debris that may come off the lines. The only lines not filtered are the foot of line from the T to each rail.

IMO- get your fuel system up to par first. Like Bison said, you could run that turbo till it can't spin any faster as long as you can feed the engine with fuel.

Also think about adding some Klotz or Redline fuel lube to help with corrosion if the car sits for awhile.

Sorry for the long post, but from what I've read on here it seems that fueling with E85 is a big, big part of what will make or break these motors.(I suppose with every engine that holds true though.)

You could also checkout my thread in this section titled "First methanol street car running stock ECM" to see how I ran my fuel lines and wiring.

10ga wire is really cheap, like 50cents a foot, and I have an extra relay (I thought I was going to be running 2 pumps) and inline fuse holder that you could have. Its literally all set up for an external pump in the rear of the car. 8ga inline fuse holder with 25amp fuse from the alternator, soldered to a 10ga wire that runs to a 30amp relay in the back. That way you're covered if any spikes in amperage occur and you don't fry your pump.

If I was you I'd look for used A1000 fuel pumps, you can find them regularly for 200$ used, 250$-300$ with filters (100$ per filter brand new, so 50$ for 2 filters aint bad). You shouldn't run out of fuel with one of those, even if the numbers are juiced 25%, you're still at 400~500lb/hr if you can get the voltage to 14v or better @80psi.

There is a guy selling a used Weldon 2035 for 550$ right now in the FS section...I'd buy that NOW if I was you...hell if you don't use it you could resell the thing for 650$...its a 850$ pump and it flows 180gph @ 80psi. You can run it at continuous duty below 42psi as well, so street driving you won't need a controller as long as your wiring and FP are set correctly.

Here is info on the pump: // WELDON RACING PUMPS // 1800 HP Fuel Pump -- Weldon Racing Pumps

Sorry for the long post. I just went through deciding what pump to get on my car as well as where I could draw the line boost wise. You gotta remember that with a base of 45psi fuel pressure, if you run 25psi of boost, your pump is going to see 70psi minimum, so you need to look for it's fueling capabilities at 70ps. I judged mine at 80psi to be safe, because there is always going to be restrictions in flow in your system; routing of fuel lines, filters, any 90degree fittings, etc... all can cause a restriction which will increase the pressure the pump sees. So even though your FP gauge shows 45psi lets say, your pump may be seeing 50psi! So you need to plan in advance that your pump can flow enough if restrictions occur.

/end of my ramble
 
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