How fast is your Hot Air...with what mods??

[turbonut85]

Like the title says...post up what setup you have, and what ET's you have seen...(or what you realistically think you would see if you are like me, and haven't ran it down the track yet. )

Everyone says it is expensive or difficult to make a hot air fast...
Define: "fast". What do you think is "fast"?? 12's, 11's, 10's??
Define: "expensive". How much have you spent on your setup?? All together, or piece by piece. What was the best bang for your buck??

I've noticed alot of newbe's on the board lately...(all things being equal...I'm still a newbe) Most are getting into TR's via the hot air route. Be it by choice, budget, or like me...just dumb luck. But at the end of the day, all of us would like to go fast at some point, right?? So let's put together a new and improved "recipie list".

Most modded hot airs run the TA-33. Some others have had special, or hybrid turbos built for them. How much difference in flow, or "seat-of-the-pants feel" are these form stockers, to say a TA-54...ahem...Brent?

Headers, downpipes, Alky injector/chip combo, heads/intake porting, cam choice, etc...

Sorry for the ramble here guys...just trying to spark some action in the hot air section, and get some updated info out there for the newbe's. After all, winter is almost here, and for the next few months, this forum is all some of us have to keep the TR juices flowing. :biggrin:

---Keith

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

I will take a crack at this. My car is very capable of low 13s. Maybe pushing it really hard high twelves. I have not proven this.
The first time ever at the track was three months ago with 12 lbs boost, knock and all setting on my TT 6.o chip set to default. The first run down the track- 15.8, second 15.0. A real eye opener. I never made it back because of a wreck and being down the past three months getting my car fixed. I am only now able to figure out my knock issue.

I spent way too much money. If my goal was pure speed the IC car is the way to go from the get go. Here are the mods to my car from stock and the approximate cost excluding labor and a few comments/opinions.

Engine- Ported/matched heads and intake. Flow test in/out increased 38%. Felpro 1000 head gaskets. Cost-$1800. Big improvment here. I passed on the cam upgrade because of minimal improvement for my setup.

Turbo- TA33C- Flows 700 cfm versus stock 380 cfm. This is worth it- $900 new or $230 rebuild on an existing TA33C. The Turbo size is one of the largest limiting factors on a hotair.

Exhaust- Poston headers, custom integrated 2 1/2 downpipe, testpipe and 2 1/2 Hooker exhaust. Cost-$1800. I had to dump $800 on a custom downpipe. GBODY has a three inch cheaper. The secret here is eliminate the 2 inch turbo elbow.

Cooling- F-body radiator, dual ramcharger fans, Caspers fan relays. All controlled by TT chip. Cost- $400. Work great but this is a Cadillac solution.

Electronics- 87 ECM, TT 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, wideband O2 sensor, and 87 IGN(hotwired). Cost-$800. Savings can be made getting used parts here.

MAF- LT1 and translator-$400. Saving by going speed density(MAFless).

Fuel- 42.5 injectors, Walbro 340 hotwired and Accufab adj. fuel pressure reg. $350.

Alky Injection-$600. Well worth it. Best mod.

Transmission- Rebuild upgrade and 2800 stall. $1600. I have read that a higher stall converter is better.

Gauges-After market boost(required), knock(required), oil pressure(opt), tach(opt), temp(opt). Scanmaster(opt with powerlogger). All these will run $500. With a power logger only get the boost and knock gauge.

There are things that I have overlooked. Not all these mods are necessary at all. Everything ends up being your goal and budget. I never would have spent or modified what I did had I known what I do now. I never look back and have simply stopped spending money and will enjoy tuning what is there now. Enough rambling and enjoy. Like everything in life-there is always other ways of modifying these cars and at different costs. Hope this stirs up some chatter. Brad

 

[usetaboost]

Looks like you got about everything on that list keith:biggrin:

 

[DWB47]

Mine is only as fast as I can push it....for now.

 

[Jerryl]

OK, I am going to give my point of view on this whole thing.

The good and bad, it that not much has changed in the HA performance arena, and therefore, many of the same recipes still apply.
We all realize that any combo will only be as good/fast as the tune on a specific octane, so in my mind, the best mod is a high rate recording scan tool + chip, combined with knowledge and common sense.

"Fast" to me is when you max out a combo, whether it be 16, or 10 seconds.
Some may disagree with this but let me pose this question; If you got a 100% stock HA car to run low 13's on 93, is that fast?

Frequently, someone will ask: How do I get my car to go faster?
There is no intelligent answer this question unless we fully understand the current set-up, the exact goal.
A goal fo "race gas only" is much different than "race gas + NOS + Alky", or "E85+ NOS", etc etc.

Some may than say: Adding Alky or NOS is still a HA, while others say it is "chemical intercooling".
By the true definition, it is in fact chemical intercooling, so you see once again, it depends on the goal and definition.

As far as the turbo; You can run any turbo you want, but it gets expensive.
If you are more into restoration combined with performance, than you are stuck with the stock housing.

As far as how much I spend on the car?
I would rather not know, but it is a LOT, and even that is relative.

Personally, I would rather race a correctly maxed out combo at 18 seconds than a 6 second combo that runs 10 seconds.
But hey, I am a strange fella, which is why I still own a HA. :tongue:

 

[scpls19398]

Fast

Fast for a street car to me IMHO, is a car capable of Hooking hard and pulling 2+ car lengths within 100-130 feet on almost anything that pulls up along side of them on a 95+ degree day in South Carolina without turning th AC off.:biggrin:

 

[boostmaster]

How fast is my Hot air

Like the title says...post up what setup you have, and what ET's you have seen...(or what you realistically think you would see if you are like me, and haven't ran it down the track yet. )

Everyone says it is expensive or difficult to make a hot air fast...
Define: "fast". What do you think is "fast"?? 12's, 11's, 10's??
Define: "expensive". How much have you spent on your setup?? All together, or piece by piece. What was the best bang for your buck??
---Keith

Here is a question that has been posed over and over and over countless times on this board. And just like everytime before you will get replys all around the answer but never the answer you inquired about. To date and to the best of my knowledge there have only been 2 true hot airs make it into the 10's one with a stage motor (Lee Thompson) and one on a stock block (Jamie aka turbo6x2). There are or have been quite a few that have made it into the 11's and even more into the 12's. Again I'm talking about true hot air trim no intercooler. The only person that still frequents this board that is in the 11's is Brent (boost231).

Some have spent big dollars and some have spent hardly anything. There is one cardinal rule in racing and that is that more speed, more money, at least theoretically. But it's not exactly how much money you spend, its where you put the money you spend. Many on this board like throwing signatures around, doing tons of research and talking about the capabilty of whatever a combo should do. But very few can tell you what you need and desire to know. And the reason is because of another rule in racing.......dyno's don't run the quarter. Combo's don't run the quarter and data logs damn sure don't run the quarter.

So with all that said the only ones that can answer your questions are the people who do the real R&D. The ones that actually run their combo's. So without further ado here are my answers. In terms of cost with the exception of any machine work all labor was done by myself.

Question (1). The fastest time I have run to date is 12.10@115 I didn't have good rubber and my car makes tremendous torque so my 60ft times suck. But I assure you that trap speed is 11.6-11.8 capable. I run 12.2xx's all day long on 20psi.

Question (2) Fast for me really depends on your combo. If you have a bone stock hot air and run low 13's all day I'll say that's quick. But at the same time if you got 4-5 g's worth of speed parts on your car and only running 13's your slow as crap because your not maximizing what you've got.
So speed is relative to what you've gotten invested in your combo.

Question (3) Is a matter of opinion expensive to me is not expensive to someone else. I personally like to make horsepower on the cheap so i buy used parts when I can to cut the cost and learn how to do alot of work on my own to save labor costs.

Ok enough rambling here is my combo and expenses.

TA62 turbo- 750.00 bought new from a member on this board and paid 25.00 to modify the outlet.
ATR header passenger side- 175.00 used
Crane cam 218-224 - 40.00 ebay new
Lifters- 40.00 new
Venolia forged pistons- 280.00 new
Ported Iron heads- 500.00 used
Ported throttle body- 125.00 new
57 lb injectors- 150.00 used
Corvette Maf sensor- 50.00 ebay
Maf translator Gen II- 260.00 (I think) full throttle
Do it yourself alky kit- 150.00
Pro Torque 3000 stall converter- 300.00 used and got checked out for free
Lee Thompson 3" downpipe- 300.00 ebay new
38mm Deltagate 150.00- ebay new

There is probably another 5-600.00 dollars in there on other stuff like elect fans, 87 ecm and chip, oil / trans coolers and etc. But as you can see not much in terms of dollars at all.

Hope I answered some of your questions and cleared up the misconception that it takes alot to make a hot air run. Yeah it does take alot, alot of time at the track to max out your combo. I think I am capable of running at least 11.20's and I'm not going to add another part to my combo until I get to 11.50's consistantly.

 

[Jerryl]

Great post Pete!

 

[boostmaster]

Great post Pete!

Thanks Jerryl.

But I have to say as a disclaimer what I have posted is my opinion and my comments are not directed at anyone specifically. I just tell it like I see it from my point of view. I understand that others may be different.

 

[racemybuick]

i am not running...yet....


my goals: 12'50's or better on pump 93 and possible alky

my combo of parts to date:
ported heads/3 angle valve job, bronze guides
ported intake
speed-pro cam 204-214
chromoly push rods
100lb springs
manley severe duty oversized valves
.030 block with fresh JE pistons from turboregal84
edlebrock double roller timing set with fancy roller button
40lb red stripe injectors
walbro 340/hotwire
accufab regulator
modded stock turbo
ported TB
ported turbo adapter
billet vacuum block
egr elminiated
87 comp with direct scan
lt1 maf and translator
mat sensor added
transmission redone a few years ago with trans-go kit and a cool pan
posi rear rebuilt
flowmaster dual exhaust
atr down pipe
atr up pipe
poston headers


Ok...so it sounds like a lot, but there are a bunch of parts still missing:
torque converter, chip, alky, fans, radiator, oil cooler, trans cooler, yadda yadda!!!

I want to run low 12's, high elevens eventually, but my serious goal this minute is 12.50 this summer...


I just need some $$$$!!! hahahahahaha



John

 

[MiAde2d]

here is my combo

I did my 85 t-type about 12yrs ago.I got almost everything from conley's in texas.My car has little miles so I only went .010 over bore. I had the motor balanced .New pistons,rods,cam (don't remember what cam I have). Champion aluminum heads that have been ported & matched to my reworked manifold. I have hooker headers with jethot coating. I have 57 lb injectors,ported tb with adapter. I have a ta 62 turbo & a custom 3" downpipe.The turbo & downpipe are also jethot coated. Aluminum radiator with ele. fan. I also put a front mount intercooler on. I know I'm missing something else.Now I have a turbo 350 tranny with a manuel vavle body with a 9" converter. I put a curry 9" in with 3.90 gears. The last thing was nitrous.I have it to spool my turbo up it shutoff at 10lbs of boost.To date my best e.t is 10.98 that is with race gas 110 octane & the weather was 68 degrees.I also have a custom chip because of the nitrous. I can run 11s all day long.The machine work cost me 1500.00 dollars.Everything I got from Conly was about 8000.00 with shipping.Jetcoat cost me 110.00 dollar I recomend it for keeping the temp down under the hood.Tranny was 2000.00 with converter.Rearend 1200.00.Chip was 150.00.Nitrous was 700.00. All in all I'm at about 14000.00 if I had to do it again I would just put an 87 motor in & be money ahead.My lasttime out when I launched I put my car on the rear bumper. Hope this helps a little my way was the money pit way but I love the car...

 

[boostmaster]

I did my 85 t-type about 12yrs ago.I got almost everything from conley's in texas.My car has little miles so I only went .010 over bore. I had the motor balanced .New pistons,rods,cam (don't remember what cam I have). Champion aluminum heads that have been ported & matched to my reworked manifold. I have hooker headers with jethot coating. I have 57 lb injectors,ported tb with adapter. I have a ta 62 turbo & a custom 3" downpipe.The turbo & downpipe are also jethot coated. Aluminum radiator with ele. fan. I also put a front mount intercooler on. I know I'm missing something else.Now I have a turbo 350 tranny with a manuel vavle body with a 9" converter. I put a curry 9" in with 3.90 gears. The last thing was nitrous.I have it to spool my turbo up it shutoff at 10lbs of boost.To date my best e.t is 10.98 that is with race gas 110 octane & the weather was 68 degrees.I also have a custom chip because of the nitrous. I can run 11s all day long.The machine work cost me 1500.00 dollars.Everything I got from Conly was about 8000.00 with shipping.Jetcoat cost me 110.00 dollar I recomend it for keeping the temp down under the hood.Tranny was 2000.00 with converter.Rearend 1200.00.Chip was 150.00.Nitrous was 700.00. All in all I'm at about 14000.00 if I had to do it again I would just put an 87 motor in & be money ahead.My lasttime out when I launched I put my car on the rear bumper. Hope this helps a little my way was the money pit way but I love the car...

And this is what I'm talking about. the fact that you spent all that money for the results that you got is just plain rediculous. Then your last statement is what plants the negative seed for all new and future hot air owners " I should have bought an 87 motor and tranny and be done with it". That statement is misleading due to the fact that the money you spent on your combo probably had nothing to do with your set up but more than likely your tuning. Some people tune a car with patience and some tune a car by throwing more parts on it to cover something else up. I can tell you for sure that there are plenty of converted hot airs running close to your times and don't have a third of the money you have in there combo's. With that said even an 87 motor and tranny is no magic bullet for speed.

 

[84GNv6]

Man! After reading this thread...It makes me want to just sell my 84 and save up for an 87 while I'm ahead! I havent put much into my HA but have tried selling it and didnt get very far!

 

[cwmccray]

I can honestly say that if I had to do it again, I still would buy a HA. I have had mine longer than I have had my Baby Mama!!!! She is gone... Still got my "Baby" I have have collected tons of parts: 4.1 motors, tranny's, NOS, cams, heads, 87 intakes and too much other stuff to mention. As with any HA owner, everyone want to be as fast as the Intercooled cars. $14000 for a 10.98 85HA. I will take that any day. Tell me where you can find a 10 sec GN/T for $14000? Everyone has his way of doing things. I applaud MiAde2d for doing it his own way. Leeo and TURBO6X2 did it their way... Hot Air owners are different. There is not set way to achieve your goals. Hot Air owners think outside of the box anyways... Everyone of us has money tied in HA.... Some more than others... MiAde2d brought quality parts from CONLEY'S also. The late BRUCE took a intercooler off this 600hp 87 GN and used akly. He documented faster spools and less restrictions. Whether you drive a Black GN, a Turbo T/A or a Chestnut Metallic T-Type, we are all in the same Frat: BBB aka Boosted By Buick

 

[cwmccray]

I did my 85 t-type about 12yrs ago.I got almost everything from conley's in texas.My car has little miles so I only went .010 over bore. I had the motor balanced .New pistons,rods,cam (don't remember what cam I have). Champion aluminum heads that have been ported & matched to my reworked manifold. I have hooker headers with jethot coating. I have 57 lb injectors,ported tb with adapter. I have a ta 62 turbo & a custom 3" downpipe.The turbo & downpipe are also jethot coated. Aluminum radiator with ele. fan. I also put a front mount intercooler on. I know I'm missing something else.Now I have a turbo 350 tranny with a manuel vavle body with a 9" converter. I put a curry 9" in with 3.90 gears. The last thing was nitrous.I have it to spool my turbo up it shutoff at 10lbs of boost.To date my best e.t is 10.98 that is with race gas 110 octane & the weather was 68 degrees.I also have a custom chip because of the nitrous. I can run 11s all day long.The machine work cost me 1500.00 dollars.Everything I got from Conly was about 8000.00 with shipping.Jetcoat cost me 110.00 dollar I recomend it for keeping the temp down under the hood.Tranny was 2000.00 with converter.Rearend 1200.00.Chip was 150.00.Nitrous was 700.00. All in all I'm at about 14000.00 if I had to do it again I would just put an 87 motor in & be money ahead.My lasttime out when I launched I put my car on the rear bumper. Hope this helps a little my way was the money pit way but I love the car...

I would like to set picture/ videos of your set up if you have them. This car kinda of reminds me of Don Wang's car. I think his car runs completely on methanol. Just from you combo, you look like you have NOS instead of alky. It also looks like you are spraying a small shot (50hp-70ph) and it shuts off at 10lbs of boost. You are ahead of most for only $14000

 

[Boostnitup]

Too much money... street raced it 98% of the time

Hot-air was running 14's to 16's in Colorado's thin air... could never get it to go beyond the gremlins that would creep up every time I took it to the track. Consistently beat strong 13 second cars on the street at the local street races.

I ran the bottle... on a TA-33 it works exceptionally well.

The car is no longer "Hot-air" and runs a Jack cotton front mount intercooler. I am very easy on it now and no longer boost it up beyond 23lbs... It surely has a low in it if I was willing to beat on it at the line. I leave the lights at "idle" and consistently run high 13's and trap 108 to 110 mph (off the bottle). This is Colorado... and the thin air has an impact on the timeslip ET.

I have way too much money in the car... and will never part with it... unless you are offering me what it is worth (Factory moonroof... the rarest of group... and surely the most optioned "Hot-Air" car on the board)

 

[racemybuick]

boostnitup!!! what options do you have??? I have a rare moon-roof 84 t-type with the posi and digital dash!!! I want to see what we have in common, and if you could help me out in figuring out what some of these codes in the trunk are!!!!



Thanks!!!



john

 

[cwmccray]

I did my 85 t-type about 12yrs ago.I got almost everything from conley's in texas.My car has little miles so I only went .010 over bore. I had the motor balanced .New pistons,rods,cam (don't remember what cam I have). Champion aluminum heads that have been ported & matched to my reworked manifold. I have hooker headers with jethot coating. I have 57 lb injectors,ported tb with adapter. I have a ta 62 turbo & a custom 3" downpipe.The turbo & downpipe are also jethot coated. Aluminum radiator with ele. fan. I also put a front mount intercooler on. I know I'm missing something else.Now I have a turbo 350 tranny with a manuel vavle body with a 9" converter. I put a curry 9" in with 3.90 gears. The last thing was nitrous.I have it to spool my turbo up it shutoff at 10lbs of boost.To date my best e.t is 10.98 that is with race gas 110 octane & the weather was 68 degrees.I also have a custom chip because of the nitrous. I can run 11s all day long.The machine work cost me 1500.00 dollars.Everything I got from Conly was about 8000.00 with shipping.Jetcoat cost me 110.00 dollar I recomend it for keeping the temp down under the hood.Tranny was 2000.00 with converter.Rearend 1200.00.Chip was 150.00.Nitrous was 700.00. All in all I'm at about 14000.00 if I had to do it again I would just put an 87 motor in & be money ahead.My lasttime out when I launched I put my car on the rear bumper. Hope this helps a little my way was the money pit way but I love the car...

I just noticed your engine in another post. I am really impressed with your accomplishment. You got a 85 in the 10's with the parts stated. Hooker headers and a SPEARCO are really old school.... The 85 Mass air through me for a loop All in all, I am really impressed that you used parts most guys get rid of.... except for the Champion heads. Great work.... Next time you put it on the Bumper... video it... that is a rarety for such a car

 

[Boostnitup]

You all can add me to Yahoo Messenger

Boostnitup@Yahoo.com

I uploaded pics of the Build sheet on here somewhere... Some of the codes have not been deciphered. It is the most loaded "Hot-Air" car in the country until one of you comes forward with a more loaded build sheet.

I have the factory "Nitrous" option.

I don't get in here often enough... was involved in the board from the very beginning. It is awesome to see some of the efforts offered up by the most creative of the group. Some real works of art, and advanced mechanical effort as well. I wish I was half as skilled... I converted to intercooled with no directions so it must have been that "Holiday Inn Express" knowledge that got me thru it all.

This year was a successful season for me... I didn't blow any headgaskets. I am trapping as fast as 112 mph leaving the line at "idle." It kicks off a 13 second pass without any effort.

 

[Boost231]

i havent forgot about this post. im still wondering if i should let the cat out of the bag now or wait till i go to the track on the 24 so i can post some real #'s