usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
See what happens when I have a few beers on no sleep! I feel like a retard even posting that:redface: -quick, someone delete it!
Hard luck for Caspers electronics....
- Thread starter turbosam6
- Start date
There's absolutely no way the government can legally MAKE any user sell the sim back to them. Especially if the user lies and says it got lost/tossed/sold/burned/stolen or any of a million other excuses. They could, in theory, send an officer to your street to wait until you drove it and then bust you, but that is impractical on so many levels and is probably not legal in states without emissions testing.
It's possible they could fine caspers extra for every one they don't get back, but it's unlikely since they already made an example of them.
I wouldn't expect caspers to actually buy back more than 10-15% of the ones they sold, if not less. Many probably don't even exist anymore and the ones that do exist were bought by people who knew exactly what they were doing and have no intention of getting rid of them just because the seller got busted. Unless the government can prove that you installed one on a registered vehicle and drove it on public roads, they have nothing. I wouldn't want to be the end user that becomes the "example" though.
Just as a side note, the discussion between Nasty Wendy and my1stgn has to be the best handled internet disagreement i've ever seen. They both stated their opinion, and then respectfully agreed to disagree with no name calling of any sort. WELL DONE GUYS!!
It's possible they could fine caspers extra for every one they don't get back, but it's unlikely since they already made an example of them.
I wouldn't expect caspers to actually buy back more than 10-15% of the ones they sold, if not less. Many probably don't even exist anymore and the ones that do exist were bought by people who knew exactly what they were doing and have no intention of getting rid of them just because the seller got busted. Unless the government can prove that you installed one on a registered vehicle and drove it on public roads, they have nothing. I wouldn't want to be the end user that becomes the "example" though.
Just as a side note, the discussion between Nasty Wendy and my1stgn has to be the best handled internet disagreement i've ever seen. They both stated their opinion, and then respectfully agreed to disagree with no name calling of any sort. WELL DONE GUYS!!
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
theres plenty of replys i wish i could delete too:biggrin:
Guess they can go to the junkyard where the next owner(who has since passed away..
) of my old Impy had it crushed..See if its still there.. You know a funny thing happened to me today. As I was finishing up a car I was working on I took it out for a final test drive and it was around 6pm. I decided to lower the windows a bit to get some fresh air since it was about 70 degrees outside and I thought, "wierd how with all these cars around me I really dont smell the exhuast fumes that bad" I guess we kinda take it for granted how clean our air is...... then I started thinking about all the deployments I did while I was in and how in some countries the air is so polluted and how it sucks to wait in traffic with the windows down. Iraq, Afganistahn, Turkey, Spain and even Mexico came in mind. Then I remembered how dirty the city was in Rome, and other places where when mentioned, you think clean tourist cities right?
And then what really started to make me mad was thinking about all the poeple on this thread complaining about how screwed up this country is and how the EPA is a crock of do-do and how we have it sooo bad here. IT kinda really started to pisz me off when I thought some of the people complaining about this "o2 simulator" have never been in a worse country than ours, have never seen worse pollution than they cant imagine, have never been overseas away from their family and loved ones during holidays, or have never had poeple outside there base protest on a weekly basis about them being there, but as soon as we leave the get attacked. Kept thinking about how most of these people are lucky enough not to ever deploy to a combat zone when hostile fire is a daily thing. How when going to the head you carry your 782 gear, M16A1 service riffle with loaded magazine, flack jacket and kevlar helmet. How going to chow is not as exciting as it is here in the states, but youll never be late for a meal cause it might be your last before you go out again........Kinda makes you mad how people dont appreciate things until its too late...... But hey, this is a free country.
Sorry, I know its a bit off topic but thought Id share my thoughts with you guys. Didnt mean to insult anyone.
And then what really started to make me mad was thinking about all the poeple on this thread complaining about how screwed up this country is and how the EPA is a crock of do-do and how we have it sooo bad here. IT kinda really started to pisz me off when I thought some of the people complaining about this "o2 simulator" have never been in a worse country than ours, have never seen worse pollution than they cant imagine, have never been overseas away from their family and loved ones during holidays, or have never had poeple outside there base protest on a weekly basis about them being there, but as soon as we leave the get attacked. Kept thinking about how most of these people are lucky enough not to ever deploy to a combat zone when hostile fire is a daily thing. How when going to the head you carry your 782 gear, M16A1 service riffle with loaded magazine, flack jacket and kevlar helmet. How going to chow is not as exciting as it is here in the states, but youll never be late for a meal cause it might be your last before you go out again........Kinda makes you mad how people dont appreciate things until its too late...... But hey, this is a free country.
Sorry, I know its a bit off topic but thought Id share my thoughts with you guys. Didnt mean to insult anyone.
Well if you can get off topic than hopefully you'll forgive my crappy spelling :wink: Anyhow, I've been outside the States and have seen enough to know we got it good. Now you say we have clean air but remember, all vehicles produce CO (Carbon Monxcide) which is an oderless gas. I could be wrong but C02 could be about the same. I'm all for the enviroment but this attck on Casper is a front period! I mean in order to believe the EPA's ruling on this subject, you would first have to believe Casper was causing more damage than companies like Edelbrock. Just look at how many manifolds they sell each year that deletes the ERG for an example. It's against Fedral law to remove or tamper with emessions on a car. Now the EPAelminated the phrase, "Off Road Use Only." So why didn't they attack Edelbrock along with Casper? This whole war on old cars is crap as well. Just look at how many new cars they produce each year. They all come equiped with the EPAs pride and joy...the Catoltic converter
You know the device you get your nuts in a sling over if removed but converts C02 into SO2 which causes Acid Rain! Anyhow, there is tons of ways to improve our enviroment instead of this crap. Just look back when they elminated Lead from our fuels. You can see a decline in trash in our air by ice cores samples taken in the polar caps. Then look at our modern day oil for our cars. Sure it sucks that they elminated Zinc from our oil and sulfer from Diseals etc. I just rounded a lobe off my cam shaft. But these changes has and will go a long ways in helping our enviroment compared to busting some guy selling O2 SIMs. You're talking about Millions of cars and Diseals effected that was built decades ago before the envent. of the OBDII.
Nasty Wendy
Perverted Lurker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Anyone wanting to donate to The Cause should do so by Monday morning. Monday I'm calling it quits. If anyone else wants to start a new rally please by all means do so. Thanks.
You act like you are the only one that has served. I did my 5 years in the USMC here and overseas and that alone makes me no more qualified to assess the effectiveness of an emissions testing program than you.
No one here is claiming that we need no environmental protections. The reason the air is cleaner is is not because the EPA went around strong arming small businesses selling car parts. It's a combination of federal new car standards, improvements in technology, and cafe standards. We have reached a point where cleaning up cars further is not going to do much to improve air quality. The vast majority of cars on the road run so clean that emissions testing is pointless.
The Govt should have no business dictating how you meet a certain goal. If clean emissions are the goal why should they artificially dictate how you meet that goal? I could get my Buick to run cleaner than a stock TR with a combination of parts that would be completely illegal because of how the laws are written.
Take for example a guy I knew that installed the Dual Cat system on his Thirdgen F body that was not originally equipped with dual cats. He failed the visual inspection despite running very clean. He was forced to remove the dual cats and re-install the single cat system his car originally came with.
Modified cars are typically driven less anyway. If you want to get tough on pollution start going after people who drive more and thus emit more pollutants into the air. I don't condone that because I believe in freedom, but at least be consistent if you are going to set out to limit peoples freedoms.
Rodney87GN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2004
Speaking of Mexico....I can't count how many times I've been stuck behind a ragged out POS car with Mexico plates bellowing black/white/blue smoke down the 805. Living in San Diego I know you've seen that quite a bit. I'm sure there's no smog program in Mexico yet cars cross the border everyday from there with no regards to our smog laws. Why doesn't the government and the EPA do something about that? Because it would be almost impossible and not cost effective to establish, maintain, and regulate a program like that and a lot easier to go after the "little" guy...in this case, Caspers.
I imagine the other border states (Arizona, New Mexico, Texas) have similar problems like that as well.
Also Pablo's post reminded me of my own experience years ago when I had an IROC. I took my car in for a smog check in Cali. I had CA smog legal SLP headers on there and all my smog equipment intact. I passed the sniffer easily but failed the visual because I did not have the CARB EO # sticker for my headers. Total BS.
I never said I was the only one that served. If you re-read the post it says how "some of the people complaining about this "o2 simulator" have never been in a worse country than ours" Im not saying Im an expert in emission testing either but I have taken a lot of courses on this subject as well as being ASE Master Certified and studing to get my smog license, I have a little knowledge on the subject.
And you say the "vast" majority of the cars run so clean you dont need to test them? Who do you think this 02 sim was designed for? Its for 96 and newer OBDII cars that have higher emission standards. A 02 sim is useless on a Turbo Buick, heck you cant even plug it in!
And for the LAST time, all this stupid device does is keep the ses light off so you dont get anoid while driving with your gutted catalyst. How retarded is that?
The only reason that you could get your car to "pass" emissions or run cleaner with "illegal" parts than it came with from the factory is cause the company who you bought the parts from DID NOT spend the extra money to get his stuff tested by EPA to make sure it didnt affect emissions adversly. And why didnt he do that? Because after he marked up the price on the product to cover testing costs, you wouldnt buy its is $800 and you could just get a knock-off on ebay or go with a different company for cheaper! So you cant blame them for not testing unless you demand they test and buy only "smog legal" stuff.
And you said "modified" cars are driven less than normal? Are you serious? You telling me everyone here (since very few poeple have completely stock cars) only drivers there car to the race track? No one here owns a modified daily driver? WOW. Thanks news to me. I must be the only only breaking the law.
Yeah you guys are write and Im wrong. What the hell was I thinking? I guess the 8 years in the Corps really messed me up! Thanks for setting me straight fellas! Down with Government!!!!!!
I don't understand what you are saying here. I know how a TR engine management system works. I've been programming my own chips since 1998. I think you misunderstood my point. The vast majority of cars on the road don't even need a smog inspection. The first 5 years of a vehicle's life is smog exempt. According to CARB's own data, only something like 5% of the cars on the road are responsible for 80% of the smog. Do you want clean air or do you think the Govt should tell you what parts you can or cannot put onto your car? I don't see any correlation between the two.
That is only one possible result of what it does. It does not do that. All it does is send a simulated O2 signal to the ECM. You could run one with a cat, or without a cat. I don't see what is so "retarded" about it. Your car could emit cherry scented pure oxygen with an O2 sim. Whether you have one or not cannot automatically imply that your vehicle is a gross polluter. For the record, I have seen and personally owned cars that have passed the sniffer test without a cat.
So what you are saying is that the only option for people to have legal cars is to buy parts made by corporations that have the money to cut through the red tape and bureaucracy, or have special friends? What relevance does all that have to clean air? Nothing. That's not to mention the lack of emissions legal parts available for the myriad of engine combinations out there. There is no way to run a cat on a high perf. turbo buick without destroying the cat quickly. If I wanted to run clean I would install a cat, and then a solenoid or diaphragm actuated bypass around the cat for WOT or heavy throttle use thus saving the cat. This would be illegal though despite being clean. As it is, WOT is not governed by emissions standards. Thats why aftermarket chips like hypertech only change WOT parameters so they can remain emissions legal.
Plenty of people own modified daily drivers. More people own regular daily drivers in addition to their modified car. I guarantee most people with modded turbo buicks have another means of transportation or drive less than if they did (I for one wouldn't want a long commute in my TR).
Down with the govt... thats what our founding fathers had in mind when they wrote up a constitution focused on limited government.
You're mistaken the EPA for the DOT. They are totaly different bodies of the Government. The DOT requires costly testing in order for a part to be legal. A part that passess testing is given a DOT number while a failed part is considered illegal for street use. We're talking about EPA rules and regulations.
It's against Federal law to remove, delete, or tamper with emession controlled devices installed on a vehicle period as per the EPA! Vic Edelbrock produces and sells manifolds that Elminate the EGR valve from a vehicle. The EPA supposenly only sees black and white! Vic could throw a Billion dollars in testing showing the EGR is junk but the fact still remains he built a part to delete a Federally protected emessions controlled part off vehicles! Just like Casper and the rest of the aftermarket parts world!!
Trust me, that is just one of the many examples possible to prove the EPA is on crack!
Well the way I see that Edlebrock and many others get away with this is that they produce performance parts that are really to be used "for off road perposes" IE they conviced the gov that most of there high performance (ie smog illegal) parts will go on, for example a small block chevy that is used for 1/4 mile racing only. As you could tell when you go to a track and see these vehicle's trailered in, thats the market the Vic edlebrock is "selling" his products to. Of course we know thats not always the case but thats the loop hole I guess you could say, they found.
And correct me if Im wrong, but the DOT could care less about smog stuff. They only care about aftermarket stuff that deals with saftey. ie DOT approved helmets, headlamps, tail lamps, tires, ect ect. The EPA or CARB (California Air Research Board) are the ones that deal with smog testing and they issue out E.O. #'s (Executive Order Numbers) that say if the part is legal for street use or illegal. Im pretty sure Im right there. And regaurdless it hardly matters if you want to get technical becuase in some states (Like California) it is illegal to modify your vehicle from stock. So even "smog legal" parts are still technically "illegal" and if a cop wants to be a prick he could give you a citation...... but most likely it wont hold up to well in court so thats why they dont really enforce it here.
Well for one, I wish I knew how to quote you and brake it down by parts but I dont so bare with me.
Im not sure what your saying about using the o2 sim to produce cherry smells, thats new to me. The reason I say its retarded is because it sends a simulated signal in place of the o2 sensor after the cat saying. "Hey Mr. PCM, Im the rear o2 sensor and the cat is A-OK! So dont turn on the check engine light" So honeslty, who has a race car (ie off road vehicle) that still has a check engine light that monitors there emission components? I dont think that many do and the ones that do probly wont spend $80 to use the sim to turn off the ses light. But thats just my opinoin.
Second, I knew Jonbob who used to own "The Other Guys Headers" All there headers where smog legall complete with EO# and he didnt have a "hook-up" and the EPA board and didnt have a cousin or brother in the gov hooking him up. So I dont see why these other companies that are waaayyyyy bigger than him (ie $$$ wise) dont send there products to get tested? Unless its because they dont think they will pass or maybe it will be to hard to get them to pass the test and they dont want to pass the cost over to the consumers. The Other Guys Headers sold for about $400-$700. Thats not that bad for high performance headers that are smog legal. Plus he did dyno test on stock cars with stock headers and with his headers.
Also I do believe you that some cars run cleaner with smog illegal stuff. Seen it myself. And I didnt say "Most people have modified Turbo Buicks as daily drivers" I said most people have modified daily drivers. As in I have a modified GN and a modified daily driven Grand Prix. It has The Other Guys Headers, plus a but load of after market stuff on it. A computer chip, different t-stat, cai all qualify as "modded" cars. But other than that I agree on everything else you said.
So you think the rest of the Aftermarket community has convinced the EPA their parts are actually being used for off road?? Now how old are you again? Anyhow, you no longer have the term "Off Road" unless there is something to the exemtion Broke1 mentioned.
Yes sir you're right. It was you that started talking about companies paying for research of parts which the DOT requires and while the EPA does not.
You got any info on this exemption?
IC, I'm guessing the EPA wouldn't issue something like that to aftermarket parts companies.
Casper never stood a chance. The EPA knew they couldn't make it to court. Now we no longer have the term "Off Road" which protected companies like Casper and Edelbrock. I can't help but think how different things would be if the EPA would have tried this on Edelbrock and Holley? Companies with the funds and connections to fight it out in court.