First time out with alky kit....very slow boost up...

[REGALTURBO]

Got Razors alky kit installed. Did the tests. Everything seems to be functioning correctly. I have not turned on the alky system yet while driving. I am following the instructions as closely as I can, being very careful and patient trying to get my tune as perfect as I can before using the system.
Since this is a new chip in the car( from my 110 oct race chip to the 93 oct alky chip; TurboTweak). Letting the car learn the chip.
After some driving around and making some initial adjustments at low boost I finally started to lay into the throttle alittle. Noticed the car is taking much longer to boost up. Whereas with the 110octane chip the car spooled up very quickly, it now seems like I have to put the pedal thru the floor and I`m literally counting seconds before it reaches 16-18lbs boost.
I`m just learning the alky system and I want to be very careful but is there a big differance with chips when changing from a 110octane race chip to a 93octane alky chip?
I`m just really noticing some laziness in the time it takes to reached the boost level.

 

[jasjamz]

Are you having this problem with the alky off? If you are trying to reach 16-18 psi the system should be on. Alky chips have do not put out as much fuel as a race chip or a street chip. This prevents over fueling when the meth/alky is spraying.

 

[REGALTURBO]

I am doing this with the system off. According to his instructions, I am supposed to get the car tuned as best as possible without the alky. Once I`m in the 16-18lb boost range or just begin to see some knock is where I am supposed to begin to use the alky system with my tune. My very last run with the car this afternoon was at the top of third gear, about 20lbs boost and 1 deg. of knock.
Now I want to make the same run with the alky turned on but the time it takes the car to reach that 18-20 lbs is taking much longer than before. So if there is a problem I`d like to try and correct it now before I start messing with the alky. If its normal to be doing this without the alky turned on then I won`t worry and I`ll just start using the alky and see if it brings up the boost much quicker.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Maybe some data logs would help find how close the tune is/isn't??

 

[Razor]

Everytime you change chip is like putting on a new set of shoes.

Typically Eric's stuff is plug-n-play. But you need to look at the basics like BL numbers on the scanmaster and make sure they are responding correctly. Another thing is O2 sensor if your O2 was used with a leaded fuel, you may want to get an AC Delco afs20. A bad O2 can cuase the ecm to learn some bad stuff, causing poor performance.

Once the BL's are in order +-10 from 128, +-5 better from 128.. then simply switch the alky kit ON and put the knob on 6. Purge the kit and start your tuning. You can get better bottom end response by increasing the timing on the 1/2 portion of the chip. That will wake it up. And may end up being why it feels a little sluggish, as that timing will more than likely be less than the programmed timing in the race chip.

Remember to watch BL as it helps to see if there is a fueling problem, vacuum leak, etc. then you can set your fuel pressure to ofset the readings. Meaning if all the BL's are above 128 add fuel, all below take fuel out of the fuel pressure regulator.

HTH

 

[REGALTURBO]

I will double check my scan master for BL numbers. Nothing was really jumping out at me in terms of being off on the BL`s.
I`m tuning with both scanmaster and wide band. Could the heated O2 on the wideband be sending funny signals from the prior use of the leaded fuel?
Also, I have the Translator Plus. I`m making fine adjustments off that as well(Base Fuel, Base timing, WOT Fuel, WOT Timing). I don`t have Eric`s adjustable chip. He just upgraded it for me from 110 to 93 alky.
I routed all the wiring for the alky programmer along the right side of the fender from the location of the pump thru the firewall where the harness comes in by the computer. Did this to avoid and interference with the Translator.
It rained here this morning. I planned on doing some more testing. Maybe this afternoon.

 

[REGALTURBO]

OK finally got out to make some additional passes.

This morning I turned on the alky system. Tested it to make sure it was working. Set the control knob to 6. As I was cruising at around 40mph I layed into the throttle and really put it down until it climbed to the top of third. Transition was perfect. No stumble or misses. My wideband O2 sensor displayed "rich". My scanmaster registered 844 on the 02`s and zero knock. So I`m figuring the fuel pressure can come down from the 42lbs where I currently have.

Funny thing happened though, as I drove around normally getting back to my shop, the wideband suddenly displayed "lean" and my scanmaster 02`s weren`t above 100. What the heck happened?

I shut the car off for 10 minutes. Start it back up and everything functions normally.

Is it possible that the fuel pump relay could be getting tired.?

 

[Razor]

OK finally got out to make some additional passes.

This morning I turned on the alky system. Tested it to make sure it was working. Set the control knob to 6. As I was cruising at around 40mph I layed into the throttle and really put it down until it climbed to the top of third. Transition was perfect. No stumble or misses. My wideband O2 sensor displayed "rich". My scanmaster registered 844 on the 02`s and zero knock. So I`m figuring the fuel pressure can come down from the 42lbs where I currently have.

Funny thing happened though, as I drove around normally getting back to my shop, the wideband suddenly displayed "lean" and my scanmaster 02`s weren`t above 100. What the heck happened?

I shut the car off for 10 minutes. Start it back up and everything functions normally.

Is it possible that the fuel pump relay could be getting tired.?

Adjust fuel pressure looking at BLM not O2's. If the car is rich only at WOT, then put the chip into program mode and reduce injector pulse width, or increase boost

Your O2 sensor.. has it been swapped out for an AC Delco AFS20? If not, start there.

 

[REGALTURBO]

Had time for some testing.

Monitored BL`s..
Idol in park...128
Idol in drive....125-128
Cruising/normal driving....120-128
WOT...128

So I took some fuel out. 35lbs line off. I leaned out the initial fuel 2%. Added some intitial timing 2 deg. Still sluggish creating boost. Spitted and popped just allittle bit initially then pulled normally at 20lbs boost. Wide band still registered "rich" , "rich".

I cannot use the AC delco AFS 20 since I have the wide band 02. Prior to my wideband I used the Denso 234-1001.

One thing I did notice is that just as I apply alittle throttle and I mean just alittle, not even creating any boost at all I noticed that the turn-on light is coming on. Way before any boost is even being built.

I`m still scratching my head.

 

[Razor]

Wide band has to be installed "AFTER" turbo. The stock O2 location is under "PRESSURE" and will mess it up.

So.. put an AFS20 in the stock location and run the wideband on the downpipe.

35 lbs line off is way tooo low. You need to be 43 line off. And your problems may be due to putting the WB in the wrong hole.

The turnon LED is suppossed to come on at 7 PSI=2.2 volts DC from the 3 bar MAP sensor. Key ON 3 bar reads 1.6 volts DC. Buy/borrow a multimeter and confirm KEY ON 1.6 volts DC on the green wire. If so, someone has messed with the controls inside the PAC unit. And the Turnon needs to be reset to 2.20 volts DC using the multimeter.

Do these, post back.

 

[WS6]

I'm confused ....you mention your O2's are at 844, but you mention you can't run the narrow band O2?

If I get this right... you installed your WB into the narrowband bung? and are not running the NB O2 at all?

 

[REGALTURBO]

PLX wide band O2. It taps into the stock O2 wiring yet is seperately powered. Allows me to monitor air/fuel and still gives me readings thru scanmaster. I may seperate the two to run independently from one another though.

One other thing I should point out that as I made passes today at WOT when I lifted off the throttle I could easily smell the alcohol inside the car. Almost as if it was flooding the engine.

I never made any adjustments to the programmer. Left it alone just as it came delivered.

Will make some changes tomorrow and repost.

 

[Boost231]

opps, you posted as i wrote this. anyways im lost. i know none of my widebands have ever said rich it will tell me rich by the a/f fuel #'s like 9.38 etc. you need to put your fuel pressure back at 43 line off. also when you are at idel in park and you press the test button down for about 5 seconds what does the car do? do you have pics of the nozzle placement? try lowering the alky knob to 3-4 and see what happens. also put the chip setting back to where they where.

 

[WS6]

okay..so you are not running the NB O2 at all, but the WB is spliced into the old NB harness...to the ECM.

So then, the PLX can send the NB mV that the ECM can interpret and at the same time show the wideband A/F's on a stand alone gauge.

Reason I ask is that the 5.6 and 6.0 chip still use the NB for idle and cruise and the 6.0 uses the WB to target A/F's at WOT.

 

[Razor]

PLX wide band O2. It taps into the stock O2 wiring yet is seperately powered. Allows me to monitor air/fuel and still gives me readings thru scanmaster. I may seperate the two to run independently from one another though.

One other thing I should point out that as I made passes today at WOT when I lifted off the throttle I could easily smell the alcohol inside the car. Almost as if it was flooding the engine.

I never made any adjustments to the programmer. Left it alone just as it came delivered.

Will make some changes tomorrow and repost.

Separate the two. Get your drivability(fuel pressure) tuning handled first. Then worry about the WOT as the last thing.

If you use denatured alcohol it will stink inside the car. Methanol is odorless.

 

[Razor]

okay..so you are not running the NB O2 at all, but the WB is spliced into the old NB harness...to the ECM.

So then, the PLX can send the NB mV that the ECM can interpret and at the same time show the wideband A/F's on a stand alone gauge.

Reason I ask is that the 5.6 and 6.0 chip still use the NB for idle and cruise and the 6.0 uses the WB to target A/F's at WOT.

Looks like he has a street chip and was using the output for the WB for the factory narrowband. One of those things that sounds great on paper until you do them. Especially on how sensitive these cars are with the O2 sensor.

Then he has drivability problems related to the O2 :redface:

Anyone reading this post.. when you have problems tuning your car.. get it electronics/sensors wise as close to OEM and stock and figure it out. Non OEM parts can make you chase your tail. Once you have a perfectly running car, then mess with the electronics like different sensors and see your results. That way you have a bread crumb way to get you back home.

 

[REGALTURBO]

Some of the things Razor said made sense to me after I thought about it for a while. Quote :/ When you have problems tuning your car.. get it electronics/sensor wise as close to OEM and stock and figure it out.

I have a tendency at times to make too many adjustments at once. I`ve done it at the track as well. Knowing that just one change can greatly make the car run better/worse, that desire for more power sometimes overtakes my better judgement and I change two or three things at once.

So I today I decided to try and start over. I read Razors tuning instructions again, which came with the alky kit. And also re-read his sticky thread here. I shut the alky off. Removed the wideband O2. Replaced the stock O2. Lowered the boost to 16lbs. Fuel at 42lbs line off. Drove the car up to operating temperature, then made a run. Car ran good, pulled good, no knock. Monitored BLs. As before, idol in park...128, idol in gear...125-128, driving around/cruising the BLs bounce between 119 and 130, WOT throttle they were 128,127,126.

I then increased boost alittle at a time until I reached 20lbs. Then I began to see some knock. 1.5, 2.2, 1.8, 3.5. I turned on the alky. Set the knob to 3. made another run and the car seemed to run really nice. No knock. I increased boost to 21lbs and again no knock. Knob still at 3. BLs still doing the same exact thing as before at idol, idol in gear, driving and WOT. Reduced base fuel 4% thru translator plus. Left WOT fuel alone. Car responded alittle better low end. Advanced base timing 4 deg. Now car has really woken up on the hit. Now I can foot brake 5-6 pounds easily. Sluggishness has greatly reduced.

Some other things I`ve noticed... TPS in gear... .36. O2s at WOT @ top of third...822, 830, 833, 855. Doesn`t seem to want to drop below 800s.

My car ran considerably better today. Now I`m destrying these DR`s. They have no chance on the street. Long burnout, short burnout or no burnout. I boil them unless I launch on nearly no boost.

Another thing I noticed as it began to get dark out and I was able to see the turn-on LED better. The red light comes on way before boost is even showing on the gauge and the green pressure met light comes on at 5lbs. I thought that seemed way too early according to Razors tuning.

Also the 3 bar map key on was 1.7 volts DC at the green wire with my multi-meter.

Low fuel alky light came on. Enough beating on my car tonight. I think my next move will be to try to get these O2 numbers down. Fuel or timing?

Thanks to those who have helped me out so far. Greatly appreciated.

 

[jasjamz]

If you plan to add more boost don't pull fuel yet. I think most of Razors kits turn on at 5psi(red) and go green at 10psi. Check wit him on that. No knock is good though!!

 

[Boost231]

I would turn the alky knob to 6 before anything else. Then if you need to pull fuel.. also what's the timing at now since you turned it up?

 

[Razor]

I would turn the alky knob to 6 before anything else.

+1 set it and forget it. A little exta alcohol wont hurt anything.

Unless you have a boost gauge issue, or somebody messed with the controls inside the PAC. The factory setup from me is 2.2 for turnon. Meaning when the MAP sensor hits 2.2 it activates the system(LED goes RED). That is suppossed to happen when the 3 bar MAP see's ~7 PSI. Depending on altitude this will vary a little, maybe +-1 PSI.

Glad its starting to come together.