Engine Assembly Questions

[CTX-SLPR]

Howdy,

I'm going to be putting together my engine this weekend and I have some questions about proceedures.
Comp Roller lifters:
I'm going to take them appart and clean them, I was thinking using the ultrasonic cleaner at work with some soapy water then putting them in oil to get the water off before reassembly. Good idea?
Thrust Bearing:
Tighten main caps to 12ftlbs, smack back and forth with a rubber mallet while its wedged forward and back then torque to specs. Measure with a dial gauge. That right?
Roller cam thrust:
No idea how to set this
Pushrod Length:
Assemble engine, torque to specs. Drop in pushrod and install rocker arms, adjust the rockers to no threads sticking out of the bottom then adjust the pushrod to snug and then measure?

Thanks,

 

[bruce]

Comp Roller lifters:
I'm going to take them appart and clean them, I was thinking using the ultrasonic cleaner at work with some soapy water then putting them in oil to get the water off before reassembly. Good idea?

Thrust Bearing:
Tighten main caps to 12ftlbs, smack back and forth with a rubber mallet while its wedged forward and back then torque to specs. Measure with a dial gauge. That right?

Roller cam thrust:
No idea how to set this
Pushrod Length:
Assemble engine, torque to specs. Drop in pushrod and install rocker arms, adjust the rockers to no threads sticking out of the bottom then adjust the pushrod to snug and then measure?

BE SURE YOU CAN MOVE THE PLUNGER (within the lifter body) WHEN YOU'RE DONE! !!.
The shipping goo in there can turn about solid, and at times won't wash out easily.

Tap lightly, and go in small tor steps. Yes, 4x the end play when done.

Instructions on cam should tell about what to do for end clearance/ preload depending on what you have.

You also want to make sure the rocker tips are centered on the valve tips. This is a function of lenght, and it doesn't take much to make a difference. You don't want the rocker pushing sideways on the stem, you want it centered and as close to tangent as possible though out it's travel.

 

[EightSecV6]

Howdy,

I'm going to be putting together my engine this weekend and I have some questions about proceedures.
Comp Roller lifters:
I'm going to take them appart and clean them, I was thinking using the ultrasonic cleaner at work with some soapy water then putting them in oil to get the water off before reassembly. Good idea?
Thrust Bearing:
Tighten main caps to 12ftlbs, smack back and forth with a rubber mallet while its wedged forward and back then torque to specs. Measure with a dial gauge. That right?
Roller cam thrust:
No idea how to set this
Pushrod Length:
Assemble engine, torque to specs. Drop in pushrod and install rocker arms, adjust the rockers to no threads sticking out of the bottom then adjust the pushrod to snug and then measure?

Thanks,

You are asking for trouble if you attempt this on your own by just reading notes from the internet. If you are dead set on doing it yourself, you need to hook up with someone who has experience and get some hands on.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Why is that Bill? I know this is not an SBC but I had Ohio George do all the machine work and I'm going to be double checking his tollerances as I assemble. I'd like to do this on my own with some help from my buddy who has built SBC's before. If anyone who wants to help in the Dayton area, I'll be glad to have them join in the fun.

Thanks,

 

[Lee Thompson]

rockers

What rocker assembly are you using? Better yet, what heads? If you are using production heads, pushrod length will not affect valve tip to rocker end geometry.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

What rocker assembly are you using? Better yet, what heads? If you are using production heads, pushrod length will not affect valve tip to rocker end geometry.

Champion CNC Iron heads, 1.65:1 T&D roller rockers, Comp 212/212 Roller cam with 853 roller lifters, Eagle Forged crank, Stock rods, Custom Diamond forged pistons (3.995" bore), JW flexplate, Indy Lites Hub, Rollmaster Billet double roller, GM replacement universal timing cover, stock intake, Poston tall Valvecovers, and Poston headers.

Thats about it for the hard stuff,

 

[bruce]

Champion CNC Iron heads, 1.65:1 T&D roller rockers, Comp 212/212 Roller cam with 853 roller lifters, Eagle Forged crank, Stock rods, Custom Diamond forged pistons (3.995" bore), JW flexplate, Indy Lites Hub, Rollmaster Billet double roller, GM replacement universal timing cover, stock intake, Poston tall Valvecovers, and Poston headers.

Thats about it for the hard stuff,

Check out what you said here:
Drop in pushrod and install rocker arms, adjust the rockers to no threads sticking out of the bottom then adjust the pushrod to snug and then measure?

My response was telling you to rethink, and redo your entire procedure.
*If* you were to just do what you said, I would *imagine* things would be in at least a bind....

While George is no doubt good, you want to check everything. From cam bearing orientation to every other detail.
Can we assume you've read the Power Book, and the Ruggles engine book for openiners....
Like what's his name said, you don't want to do this from internet notes. The Power Book has some nice pages where you can fill in the blanks to document your build. There are some fast running TRs in the Dayton area, you might want to buy one of their owners a few beers to swing by an lend an eye on what you got going...

 

[BobbyBuick]

Hi Im in beavercreek are you at wpafb now?feel free to call ill try to help you out

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Honestly no, I haven't read that book. Where can I get a copy and quickly as it wouldn't be bad to have hanging around.

Thanks,

 

[VadersV6]

Dumping the lifters in soapy water wouldnt be on my "to do list". If you're dead set on cleaning them out, you can actually disassemble them by removing the retaining clip, and then wash the individual parts in solvent. Dry them off and fill the lifter with oil and reassemble. Then when you're done with re-assembly, submerge them in engine oil, and using a pushrod while holding the lifter vertical (yet still submerged), push the plunger up and down to expel as much air as you can and to get them filled with oil. Holding the lifter vertical, given its a roller, (and you dont want to scratch them all up with pliers), wont be all that easy.
But this is still a bad idea. I would just wash them off with solvent and check all the plungers. then drop them all in a tub of oil, and do the plunger depressing job to hopefully replace some of the old oil with new oil. if it were me, i would just wash them as use them as is. If they get noisy down the road, after the break in oil has been flushed, throw a quart of marvel mystery oil in the engine with the next few oil changes. That stuff works wonders for sticky dirty lifters.
Of course Im assuming you have used lifters. otherwise, i dont know why you would want to do any of this. If they're new, just spray them good with WD-40 and blow them off with an air gun. then lube them and install.
If the shop hasnt done this, using a fine file, deburr the sharp edges of the bearing saddles on the block, and the main caps. Right where the 2 bearings join, on both sides. Make a tiny chamfer maybe .010" wide. Best to lay the file at a 45 degree angle, with the file laying in the direction of the engine, front to back. Run the file from the front of the motor to the back, so that the file is being supported by another main web as you run it across. helps to get the chamfer the same size on every main web, and keeps you from making any burrs when you run the file in that direction. Do the same (very carefully and be extremely clean!) to the bearings themselves. Just a tiny little chamfer on the sharp edge of the bearings, where the 2 bearings meet, on the inside. Dont make a .010" chamfer here. Smaller. Best to have a fine and clean diamond file when doing this. When the block is torquing and twisting, and when over time the block (line bore) starts to warp, this can help prevent the sharp edge of the bearing from scraping the journal, and scraping the layer of oil off the surface. If you're not using the rope seal, I would recommend staggering the 2 main seals. You install the seal, and then rotate it so maybe 1/4" of the seal is above the surface. Do the same to the one in the block. Now when the cap goes on, the seam where the seals join are not inline with the seam where the main cap meets the block. This will stop any future rear main leaks. These are a couple tricks we would do on every engine.
If you have never assembled an engine, dont even THINK about doing this yourself without a seasoned engine builder by your side. There are so many things that you will never read about that can make all the difference in the success of the build and longevity of the motor.

 

[Blown&Injected]

If they are NEW lifters you need to let them soak in solvent. I also let them go for an hour in solvent in an ultra sonic cleaner. Then in an oil bath - it seems like they hold a gallon of the solvent so the oil should help to displace the solvent.

Do not just use the threads on the rocker adjusting screw to set the lash. You need to make sure the lifters are on the base of the lobe then set to 0 lash + about 3/4 turn. You also have to make sure the oil passages are in-line so the oil can make it thru the pushrod and into the rocker arm.

The cam end play can be done by assembling the front cover with the cam button and all the shims in the button - do not go to tight with the front cover. The cam should bind as the front cover is tightened because all the shims should be to many. Take the cover off and remove a shim. Repeat the front cover assembly and then check for play. I do not recall the specs or the thickness of the shims but once you have play, that should be about right.

Get the factory manual and READ! - there are lots of details and procedures that need to followed.

Keep clean and do not rush

 

[Lee Thompson]

Try this

That is one way to set the cam end play. I prefer to install all hardware with 0 washers--torque front cover with new gasket--measure--reinstall with the necessary washers to get your .004--.010 --maybe save a few steps.

 

[ijames]

I'd definitely avoid soapy water on the lifters - you don't want to start any rust. Something like mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, hexanes, toluene, or xylenes would be good, as hot as you can get them in the ultrasonic cleaner. Acetone would probably clean okay but it evaporates too fast. After a couple of solvent changes, blow out as much solvent as you can with compressed air and then reoil them.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Thanks Guys,

I am really seeing my need for a book now, not so much for the prep work like the lifters or chamfering the bearings but for the actual put things together part of it. Is the Ruggles book the best for that purpose?
Not really terribly important since the timing cover won't be sealed down till I'm ready to fire but what all needs to be on the crank nose and in what order? I know it needs to have the crank timing gear at the back, the balancer with washer and bolt on the front. Is there an oil slinger in there aswell still, if so does it serve as a spacer or a real needed purpose? I'm trying mock up something and need to figure out the total stackup height on the crank to get the sensor placement correct.

Thanks,

 

[Blown&Injected]

That is one way to set the cam end play. I prefer to install all hardware with 0 washers--torque front cover with new gasket--measure--reinstall with the necessary washers to get your .004--.010 --maybe save a few steps.

Where and How are you measuring the endplay? It looks like the only way to do it would be before the cam cover plug in the back of the block is installed.

 

[Lee Thompson]

correct

That is what I'm saying--measure @ the rear.--altho there is an indicator that you can stick down through and touch the side of lobe. Not sure the name and only tool maker would probably have one. Just saying measure without any washers (shims) then add necessary shims to get the .004-.010. Two steps should do it. After a few times torquing the gasket may need to be replaced. Sound reasonable? Don't forget to install rear plug.

 

[Blown&Injected]

Oh Yeah - sounds totally reasonable! And also like a very good procedure for a roller cam when the engine is out of the car as CTX's is right now.
Just that it is common to have the machine shop do some of the block work beyond just machining, like install the cam bearings and plugs. Of course with my luck I did the set-up only to find an issue with the front cam bearing and wound up knocking out all the brand new cam bearings and that plug. Oh well, good excuse to buy the cam bearing tool.

There is a dial indicator at a place I have done some work (a dental lab) and it looks like it would measure the end play through the holes in the lifter galley - gonna have to check it out more closely next time I am there because even though the rear cam cover procedure sounds like the way to go, I can see some people swapping a cam with the engine in the car - real easy thing with our cars as a big block will fit where our little 6 goes.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Post 1000!!!
Aye, the engine is out of the car and none of the plugs are in but the teflon coated TA dualgroove cam bearings are in. While I trust George to put them in right, just to make sure, the feed holes line up with the holes in the cam bearings correct?
To measure the cam thrust, insert cam, add gasket and timing cover, torque to specs, measure thrust through the rear cam plug with a dial indicator correct?
Any idea on the need of the oil slinger for spacer or functional use?

Thanks,

 

[Blown&Injected]

each post should be good for 1 HP right

Yes on all except that I do not believe any of the crank stuff needs to be installed to check the end play on the cam. There should be a grove in the front cam bearing journal so it really should not matter where the holes in the fron bearing go as the oil will enter through holes as it follows the path around the grove.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

each post should be good for 1 HP right

Oh don't I wish! Anyway, its mainly for my research in mocking up a gerotor oilpump and seeing how much stack up I have to play with in getting the drive gear on there by machining the nose of the crank hub down while still maintaining pulley alignment.