Engine Assembly Questions

[Lee Thompson]

slinger

Yes, you need to use the slinger. Can not install it backward--it will only go one way. It goes after the crank gear, make sure the slot remains on the key when pushed all the way in.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Yes, you need to use the slinger. Can not install it backward--it will only go one way. It goes after the crank gear, make sure the slot remains on the key when pushed all the way in.

Is it there for pulley alighnment or for lubrication Lee?

Thanks,

 

[Lee Thompson]

both

Both

 

[MSDGN]

Aye, the engine is out of the car and none of the plugs are in but the teflon coated TA dualgroove cam bearings are in. While I trust George to put them in right, just to make sure, the feed holes line up with the holes in the cam bearings correct?

According to T/A the cam bearings should be installed with the holes at the 3 and 7 O' clock positions when looking at the engine from the front...that's how I installed mine...

 

[CTX-SLPR]

According to T/A the cam bearings should be installed with the holes at the 3 and 7 O' clock positions when looking at the engine from the front...that's how I installed mine...

I checked mine lastnight and thats how mine were install aswell. Cool, I'll run with it.

 

[blkrs86]

oil slinger

the oil slinger also is there to deflect oil spray/splash from directly hitting the front seal.without it your front seal wont last.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

the oil slinger also is there to deflect oil spray/splash from directly hitting the front seal.without it your front seal wont last.

Perfect, that's exactly what I wanted to know, got it in the mockup stack already.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Thrust Check

Howdy,

I did the initial assembly, didn't torque the mains down all the way, just to 25ft lbs and check the thrust after beating the crank back and forth with a rubber mallet at 12ftlbs and then again at 25. With a screwdriver wedged between the crank throw and the thrust cap I got .005" end play.
I check my roller cam thrust and its at .011" with all the shims I have for it. Should I worry about .001" on the roller or is this close enough. I also swear that I didn't get any torque values for the head studs from TA when they shipped them. What is it with ARP Moly lube? I need to check my pushrod length with the Comp 853's, Champion Irons, and 1.65:1 T&D's.
Finally... I think I've run into a common Eagle crank issue, the Rollmaster and oil slinger fit over the key fine, but I can't get the Indy Lites hub over it, its close because I can feel it hang when I rotate the hub against the key but it won't go over the key. Also do I need to loctite the key in place?

Thanks,

 

[Blown&Injected]

I would tighten up the cam with at least one more shim.

You should also measure the key and the key path in the balancer - maybe it is just tight but not wrong - I know the BHJ is a press fit, if the one you are using is also a press fit, it just may feel like it does not want to go one as it gets tighter going in.

Did your crank use the same key as the stock crank?

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Where do I get more shims? I picked the cam up off a guy who mocked it up then switched to something else so all I got was the shims install.
Don't know about the crank key, its what my machinist gave me with the engine. So its either a stock or for a BMS crank. It won't go on at all, the hub fits over the end of the crank just like a factory peice so its not a pressfit however it won't go over the key even after I lightly tap the key down to try to make sure its either flat or lower in the front since the Rollmaster and oilslinger clear without even a hickup. I think I'm just going to measure the slot in the balancer and the key hieght and get the top of the key shaved with the bridgeport at work.

 

[Blown&Injected]

Ah, so you are thinking that it is too tall - I was thinking it might be too wide.

I bet Mike at Full Throttle Speed cad got you some shims. I think they are .002" for the cam button he has for the roller cams. Do Not Know for sure, but I bet the cam buttons are all the same for the rollers.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

Howdy,

I did the initial assembly, didn't torque the mains down all the way, just to 25ft lbs and check the thrust after beating the crank back and forth with a rubber mallet at 12ftlbs and then again at 25. With a screwdriver wedged between the crank throw and the thrust cap I got .005" end play.
I check my roller cam thrust and its at .011" with all the shims I have for it. Should I worry about .001" on the roller or is this close enough. I also swear that I didn't get any torque values for the head studs from TA when they shipped them. What is it with ARP Moly lube?
Thanks,

ARP packages this lubricant with every internal engine fastener kit they sell. I am going to share with you my opinion on why they do this. First of all ARP is way ahead of many others when it comes to designing and making high quality fasteners.

I am going to simplify this next statement. When something is designed to be clamped together using bolts, an Engineer determines the amount they want the bolt to stretch for that application. This varies depending on the alloy, the thread type (rolled threads, cut threads, etc.), diameter, locking features (crimp style lock nuts, Teflon lock nuts, etc.), length, moments of inertia being exerted, etc. Next they determine a quick repeatable way to get the fastener to stretch to the desired yield in a manufacturing environment. One of the ways is to call out a torque value. Some applications have a tighter tolerance because they are more critical. (Example bolting the fender to you car has a wider tolerance than bolting together the components of the landing gear for a 747.) If most Engineers had their way they would measure how far the bolts stretched when they were installed, and document how far to stretch them for each application, but they don’t get their way, so they are forced to call out torque specs. Which are not as accurate as measuring how far it stretches. Because of this, most designs are over engineered to compensate for this level of inaccuracy.

The ARP lubricant is very slippery and greatly reduces the amount of friction necessary to stretch a bolt to its desired length when it is properly installed. ARP knows what the application is for the fasteners they are selling you. By providing you the ARP lubricant they can more accurately tell you how far to torque fastener, because they have eliminated what you might, or might not use for a lubricant from the equation. When they state the torque specs for their fasteners, it stated what it should be using ARP molly lubricant. They also tell you what it would be if you used 30 weight motor oil which is no where near as consistent as ARP molly lube.

I am sure someone will disagree with me, so I have promised myself I will not reply to this subject on this thread any more. This is only my opinion. When I rebuild an engine using ARP fasteners, I use their recommended torque specs, and recommended lubricant. Now everyone knows why.

Sorry to ramble, but this is a touchy subject for me.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

This is only my opinion. When I rebuild an engine using ARP fasteners, I use their recommended torque specs, and recommended lubricant. Now everyone knows why.

Sorry to ramble, but this is a touchy subject for me.

I work for the Air Force Research Laboratory's Structual Failure Analysis so I completely understand where you are coming from. However since I did have a high quality machine shop do the work knowing I had ARP hardware everywhere I am going to call them up and see what they torqued the mains to for the line bore, torqued the torque plate to when they bored the cylinders and what they torqued the rods to when they resized the big ends. After that I'll call ARP and ask them what the values are and if they don't line up I'll cheat the ARP to the side of the machinist to keep from distorting things too badly while maintaining clamping load. Hopefully George knows exactly what ARP specs are so I won't have to cheat any. I went beyond the little squeeze packet and went for the jar and saved the packets for my tool box incase I have to tear down sometime and reassemble.

Now for a different question, what should I be sealing freeze plugs into the block with? I put ARP teflon thread sealer on the rear screw in plugs and on the front plugs into the oil gallery, did I mess up there? What should I be using on the 4 on the back and 2 on each side into water?

Thanks,

 

[VadersV6]

Now for a different question, what should I be sealing freeze plugs into the block with? I put ARP teflon thread sealer on the rear screw in plugs and on the front plugs into the oil gallery, did I mess up there? What should I be using on the 4 on the back and 2 on each side into water?

Thanks,

Gasgacinch! best to open the can and let the goo thicken up a little bit. Then wipe it on the sealing surfaces of all freeze plugs. Use blue loctite on the oil passage plugs.