Dyno Results From Stock 87

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Sleeper87

Guest
I dyno'd my car today STOCK nothing changed just rebuilt motor wit STOCK OEM parts....131HP and 101 torque...uhmm someone wanna tell me whats up......Gets boost....guys at the dyno say SPARK is being lost.....Im loosing spark they say.....Any suggestions....This hurt my feelings :-( an 87 T-Type pullin a 131 and 101 thats harsh dude...now people are laughing at my car...someone wanna help me out so i can regain my Respect. Thanks
Sleeper87 in maine
 
WOW!! You said thats a T-Type huh? :confused:

Sounds like a naturally aspirated 3.8.
You said you were seeing boost though.
Is that with the factory gauge or an aftermarket?
How much boost is it showing?
You said spark, is it missing really bad? Popping or shutting down on boost?

Really sounds like boost to me. Even if the car was knocking really bad and it took out all the timing you would see more power than that with boost. The turbo in these cars is what builds the torque up higher than the hp. So when I see torque that low has to be a boost problem. Check the wastegate and solenoid lines and make sure the puck is shut against the housing and not hung open.

Keep the hazards on when driving till you get this solved. We do not need a civic to take one of us out now. :eek:
 
Well i know its making good boost i see like 12psi and its an aftermarket guage.....Was the 1st thing i did when i bought the car is get a guage.....As for the spark i have no idea, the guys at the dyno say they think its spark plugs, wires, or coil pack or all of the above....either or.....Car cuts out like stumbles on itself.....Waste gate lines? i dunno where those are at...like i said i dont know much about my car yet ive read alot but thats about it.....The line goin from the silinoid looks fine.....and what about this puck thing....i have no idea what ur talking about...Please people help me out....im gunna get smoked bye everything on the road in a T-Type *Turbo T*ahhh going nuts here....
Help
Sleeper87
 
>Car cuts out like stumbles on itself<

Now we are getting somewhere. 12 psi is a stock boost setting.

You need a scan tool!
I would recommend the scanmaster. I had a similar cut out problem due to the chip being way way to lean on the low end. I kept seeing high 02 milivolts at wot but when I then looked at the block learn it was flying over 150. (really lean)

You still have the stock injectors right? Did you mention that when you got the chip?

Adjustable fuel reg?

So, the boost solenoid is on your passenger valve cover. The lines off it run to the wastegate. But you are getting boost so that seems ok. So does the puck against the housing.
The puck is what the wastegate rod is connected to in the exhaust elbow off the turbo.

I would take out the plugs and see if they are gapped to .35.
Then look for the wires on the right cylinders. The coil has a number marked on it for which cylinder. Then see if you have a fried wire by a header or whatever.

No torque is scary on a turbo buick.
 
131HP and 101 Torque numbers?? you must be experiencing other drivability problems as you drive, a miss occurring, black smoke from tailpipe, slipping tranny, engine codes appearing maybe, give us the rest of the story and we can help.
 
12 psi is not the factory setting (from my experience) every TR I have seen puts right at 15, stock. The reason I post this with any confidence is that aside from seeing every car at 15 (stock), I know the factory chip is programmed for 14.7 psi.

You should get a Directscan (or equal) scantool to help you diagnose your problem. You wont go anywhere fast just slapping coil packs and ignition modules on. Good luck,

-Bob
 
None of this "black smoke from tailpipe, slipping tranny" just the jerking of the car a little fromthe missfiring....other than that it seems to get up and go but i dont know what a GN is supposed to feel like ive never ridden in a Good running one...anyone near Maine or in maine wanna give me a ride in theirs....maybe compare parts to find out whats wrong with mine..thanks guys
Sleeper87
 
Good Grief!!!!

Sleeper87...you need to go to www.gnttype.org and read everything there. First go to the "spring cleaning" section.

Something is seriously wrong if you're making those numbers on a dyno.

You need some kind of a scantool to make sure you're not getting tons of spark retard from the knock sensor. You're fuel pressure may be way off also.

"but i dont know what a GN is supposed to feel like ive never ridden in a Good running one..."

A stock GN will SCARE most people. When you get it running right you will know :) Believe me....you WILL know.

There are basic things an engine needs to run properly....air...fuel...spark. Check the basics first and get a scantool.

Good Luck,
John
 
well my motor was JUST rebuilt so i know the motor is sound internally wise...I just have to figure out whats up....It must be something external on the motor becuase everything sounds good and the dealership that rebuilt the motor said that the motor is fine...I got that from the dyno guys also...they said its a spark issue and my spark went crazy....didnt give enough spark or something like that....he said once i get my spark ill double my specs that i pulled...
Sleeper87
 
The power of the GM LC2 turbo motor comes from all the external stuff bolted on to the motor. The motor is basically a plain 3.8 L V-6.

There are a lot of things that can cause a "spark" issue. The description from the dyno guys is rather vague. If you have detonation occuring...the motor's knock sensor will pick it up and retard the ignition timing. If something is banging on the frame when you rev the engine up the same thing will happen.

You may have a vacuum leak somewhere leaning out the engine.

Pull the plugs and look at them....this will give you a good idea if you are getting a good strong spark. Check the resistance of the plug wires....are the wires going to the proper plugs....etc.

The cam sensor may be 180 degrees out....or not properly adjusted.

A scantool will give you a wealth of information about what's going on. I recommend the ScanMaster 2 from www.ramchargers.com. It will give you all the info you need to diagnose the problem.

You could end up spending a lot of money replacing parts until you get lucky and find the problem.
 
Here is another possible cause, but was the dyno messed up? How does your car perform on the street against other well known cars like a 5.0 or a newer camaro. I would think that if you only made just over 100 HP, you would notice it BIG time. Sounds crazy. ERIC.:confused:
 
>The cam sensor may be 180 degrees out....or not properly
>adjusted.

I would second that one.
 
>12 psi is not the factory setting<
I should of said, the factory diaphragm spring in the wastegate is 12 psi.

I third the cam out.
 
Originally posted by Sleeper87
well my motor was JUST rebuilt so i know the motor is sound internally wise...
Click to expand...

Absent scan tool data, and assuming those HP/TQ numbers are valid - I don't know that you can be sure of anything.

X number of dollars for a rebuild and no scan tool data?

Protect your investment - get a scan tool now.
 
you can definatly feel the misfireing...no black smoke no nothing....I tried to move the actuator rod to see if it would move...Its ROCK solid...is this good or bad i dunno....
Sleeper87
 
We hear what you're saying Sleeper87, but you have to realize that these engines are very different than anything the fellows at the dyno shop have probably seen.

You should be able to move the wastegate actuator rod...it may be stiff, but it will move. Grab the rod and pull it toward the passenger side fender well. Take off the little c-clip with some needle nose plier....carefull not to loose the clip...and pull the rod off the puck arm. The puck pivot arm should swing freely.

The Turbo Buick motor has no distributor....all timing functions are controlled by the computer using input from several sensors. The fueling is also controlled by the computer.

When the knock sensor on your motor detects engine knock it will pull back the timing (very hard sometimes) and it will run very rough....this is to protect the engine.

A scantool will show you what the computer is seeing. You will know what the Knock Retard level is when the missing is occuring. If the knock retard isn't the problem....you can look at the MAF numbers....perhaps the mass air flow sensor is screwed up. It could be going lean....looking at the BLM numbers on the scantool will clue you into this....the lean condition could be caused by a vacuum leak...or maybe the fuel pressure regulator isn't adding fuel pressure as the boost rises.

It gets very expensive very quickly if you just start changing out parts. The coil pack ~may~ be bad, but right now you really don't know. I would hate for you to keep putting parts on it and it still be running bad....

There is a simple tool made by Casper's Electronics you use to check the cam sensor. Hopefully we can hook you up with a Turbo Regal guy in your area who has one so you can check it out....same thing with the scan tool. If you plan on keeping the car for a while you'll need to invest in some of these tools (like the cam tool and a scanmaster) These tools are just as important as a good set of wrenches.
 
I want to keep the car for a while its just hard to say that i can becuase i need reliable form of transportation and the amount mine has broken down im sick of it....Ill tough it threw though cause i know once i get everything worked out it will be worth my while....I tried callin a guy today that is in my local area he didnt pick up....My car now is leakin oil....so besides the enigne spark thing its got an oil leak now seems to be coming from the rear main seal wich i replaced myself with a NEOpreme one....just about 1,100 miles ago....it does at WOT seem as if the computer sences knock and retards the car cause it goes FAST then slower than FAST...all while ur on the floor...Hmm weird huh...now it almost seem slike i have a bad spark plug wire or something it sputters.....AHHH im going nuts man ive never had the experiance of a correctly runnin GN....i plan on buying a scan tool once i get the money but 250 bucks when ur 20 and got lots o bills is kinda hard lol....I will sometime in the near close future for i am sellin my Nissan 240Sx....in 2 weeks...i will purchase one then.....Any other info would be greatly apreciated...thanks
Sleeper87
location: Old Orchard Beach Maine
Car: 1987 Buick Turbo T *with GN badges instead of Turbo T*
 
I'm gonna go along with some of the others and I say its the cam sensor way outta wack, or something internal, I hope you get it squared away, you'll love it when its all in tune. I made a kid with a maxima piss his pants in my 87 one time, when the tires ripped loose at the top of 1st gear and all through second. Good luck.
 
How do i adjust this cam sensor? Or would i need to tear the motor apart to adjust it? Thanks
Sleeper87:confused:
 
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