Coolingmist/Devil's Own h2o/meth

[Pablo]

Guys I REALLY appreciate all the information and I think that you guys have "steered" me in the right direction.I am going to get to the looking I may end up getting a Razors kit, but I am going to see what else there is out there. Also, didn't someone say that a progressive kit was not needed. I figured as the duty cycle on the injector went up you would want the methanol to "ramp up" as well??

I said a progressive kit may not be needed if you have an engine management system that auto corrects air fuel ratio at wide open throttle or power enrichment mode.
In your case, you would probably be better off with a progressive kit since you do not have auto correction at WOT.

The progression is usually boost referenced though you probably could do a system that used duty cycle as a reference. Some systems use a MAF reference.

Boost referencing works well enough for most cars.

 

[Blazer406]

4). Straight Methanol has an octane rating of 122 octane,
Scot w.

I think it has an octane of around 102 in the (R+M)/2... which is the same way pump fuels are rated....

 

[norbs]

This will clear up some of the confusion:

 

[coolingmist]

Dee, Your not being bashed at all bud! these people are simply telling you what has worked the best for our cars and I'll tell you WHY.

1). The Coolingmist / Devilsown are Methanol / water mix kits that don't have a pump that can be used with Pure Methanol. Meaning you won't get the full benifits of Pure Methanol. meaning (most boost & most timing).

our pump can run 100% methanol. Our entire kit including the pump has a lifetime warranty. Our seals are all EPDM and we had it designed for us with methanol in mind.

2). Here is a "Temps Facts" comparison of the Cooling effects using some of the fluids being used today in other kits.

Water Only results: Boiling Point = 212*F / No Flash Point!

Windshield Washer Fluid / Water = 50/50 Mix
Results: Boiling Point = 180*F / Flash Point = 82*F

Straight Methanol results: = Boiling Point: = 147*F / Flash Point = 51*F

** It is clear that "Straight Methanol" Will Evaporate the quickest ( Thus leaving corrosion out of question! ) and will do the best in cooling your intake temps and will allow you to run the most boost and timing over the other fluids. Though the straight methanol will require just alittle more tunning seeing it's a fuel, running straight methanol does alot of things over the other fluids.

3). Methanol/Water mix = No noticable differance in injector duty cycle..


4). Straight Methanol has an octane rating of 122 octane, now if it's mixed with water 50/50 you now have 61 octane. What would you rather have?


5). Straight Methanol lowers your injector duty cycle by 10-15% / Methanol/water mix practically nothing!


6). When selling a methanol/water mix kit.

**** 1) The seller sells the customer a kit that really don't need much tuning at all due to the 50% water mix= 61 octane. (Just add a small amount of timing and wala!) Done.

**** 2). The seller can sell a kit without worry of blowing peoples engines cause they don't do much with 50/50 mix!

7). The buyer that buys a Methanol/Water mix kit:

The buyer reads all this hype about how well those kits work and when they take there kit to be installed & tuned, all that the tuner really does is add very little timing and a couple lbs of boost and they think thats great untill they really want to turn the boost up and figure out it can't be done unless you went with more methanol!!

*Note: Methanol/water is only allowing you HALF the benifits of a kit thats designed for Straight Methanol. And that's the Big picture!


Hope this helps!
Scot w.

I'd love to know where you got your facts that ours cant run methanol. I will not speak for DO, but ours can. The pumps that cannot run methanol cannot run it because the seals are VITON. No viton on ours.

Again, lifetime warranty on all of our kits sold after Jan 1, 2008.

 

[dees75z]

OK then well I will definitely be getting one of your kits then!! Shweet!!!

 

[coolingmist]

I also want to point out that every part of our kit was designed to run on 100% methanol, 100% water or any mix. The pumps are EPDM seals, the Super high Speed valves have EPDM and our fittings have EPDM seals or buna. Stainless steel teflon hose is available as well.

We would not back our entire kit with a lifetime warranty if we were worried about our seals dying.

David

 

[Razor]

Please elaborate on this "Lifetime Warranty". Will you cover acid, gasoline, urine, trash being run through the pump? Will you cover pumps that are submerged in salt water? Will you cover fire damage to the pump? Will you cover abuse?

 

[Razor]

No viton in my pump either.

Back to the warranty questions.

 

[coolingmist]

Please elaborate on this "Lifetime Warranty". Will you cover acid, gasoline, urine, trash being run through the pump? Will you cover pumps that are submerged in salt water? Will you cover fire damage to the pump? Will you cover abuse?

You are more than welcome to navigate to our warranty section to see for yourself. Use a little common sense.

For the purpose of his question, we will cover any damage to the pump from running methanol. this is because the pump is 100% compatible with methanol. I only showed up here to dispute the spew of misinformation about our pump/kit. I intentionally did not mention your kits, your products, or make any comparisons as I dont want us to get into a pissing contest. I would hope you would afford the same to me.

If you wish to debate our lifetime warranty I guess I can do that too. It is what it is.


David

 

[Quiky One]

I too am on Julio's payroll. The pay is awesome. You should jump on the bandwagon!

I have two of his kits in my house. (TTA and GN) Both of them work awesome. I run 25-26 PSI in the TTA all the time and have seen 28-29 with no knock on 91 octane. Enough said if you ask me. Thats definate proof. The GN is daily driven everyday...ran snow or shine. 10 degrees or 100 degrees. Kit is still pumping the methanol when the foot goes flat. Something about customer service, reliability, and ease of use appeal to me.

Jason

 

[scot w.]

I think it has an octane of around 102 in the (R+M)/2... which is the same way pump fuels are rated....

Here is where I read what the Octane rating for Methanol is:

Volumetric energy density of some fuels compared with gasoline:[7]

Fuel type..MJ/litre../..MJ/kg../..BTU/Imp gal../..BTU/US gal../..Research octane number

Regular Gasoline 34.8 44.4[8] 150,100 125,000 Min 91
Premium Gasoline Min 95
Autogas (LPG) (60% Propane + 40% Butane) 26.8
Ethanol 23.5 31.1[9] 101,600 84,600 129
Methanol 17.9 19.9 77,600 64,600 [SIZE="3[B]"](123) < Research octane [/B][/SIZE]
Butanol 29.2 91-99
Gasohol (10% ethanol + 90% gasoline) 33.7 145,200 120,900 93/94
Diesel 38.6 45.4 166,600 138,700 25(*)
Aviation gasoline (high octane gasoline, not Jet fuel) 33.5 46.8 144,400 120,200
Jet fuel (kerosene based) 35.1 43.8 151,242 125,935
Liquefied natural gas 25.3 ~55 109,000 90,800

(*) Diesel is not used in a gasoline engine


Scot W.

 

[Blazer406]

I'm not sure of the Research Octane rating..... my point was that pump fuels (I know) as well as race gas (I think).... use an average of Research Octane and Motor Octane. All gas pumps I have seen show where the octane is stated that it is (R+M)/2. Research Octane is considerably higher than when you average it with motor octane.

I'm not trying to muddy the water... just pointing out....

 

[scot w.]

our pump can run 100% methanol. Our entire kit including the pump has a lifetime warranty. Our seals are all EPDM and we had it designed for us with methanol in mind.



I'd love to know where you got your facts that ours cant run methanol. I will not speak for DO, but ours can. The pumps that cannot run methanol cannot run it because the seals are VITON. No viton on ours.

Again, lifetime warranty on all of our kits sold after Jan 1, 2008.

Well here is the recomendation on your very own site!

coolingmist: "While this pump is chemically compatible with any mixture of alcohol, Shurflo and Coolingmist recommend running a maximum mixture of 50/50. The manufacturer of the pump (SHURFLO) and Coolingmist will not be held liable for any engine fire that results from mis-use or malfunction of the pump".

**Thats where I recived my facts from!! As your pump may be made to handle Straight Methanol (which we don't know cause you recomend a maximum of 50/50% mix).

Your pump is also maxed out at 150psi and as I belive Alkycontrols is tested out at 250psi with no problems!

You also state on your site that your pump is the only pump made by shurflo to handle 100% methanol. I don't think so!!


MY WHOLE POINT OF ME POSTING WAS TO SHOW THAT 100% METHANOL WORKS BETTER, HAS MORE POSSITIVE RESULTS THAN THE 50/50 CRAP! I'm just a firm beliver in 100% methanol...

Hey (dees75z) 50/50 mix is even sold by some of the distributors now!

 

[scot w.]

I'm not sure of the Research Octane rating..... my point was that pump fuels (I know) as well as race gas (I think).... use an average of Research Octane and Motor Octane. All gas pumps I have seen show where the octane is stated that it is (R+M)/2. Research Octane is considerably higher than when you average it with motor octane.

I'm not trying to muddy the water... just pointing out....

I understand! Think of it like this: Your starting out with a tank full of 93 octane pump gas and now your spraying in 100% methanol. The test above was done to show:

"Some fuels compared WITH gasoline / Not "Some fuels compared TO gasoline!! So if I was to guess, they are taking the octane rating of both. I'm not a scientist, I just know what works better!!

 

[dees75z]

Again I appreciate all the help and everyone chime'n in!! I will make a good decision don't worry, lol.

 

[Pablo]

I understand! Think of it like this: Your starting out with a tank full of 93 octane pump gas and now your spraying in 100% methanol. The test above was done to show:

"Some fuels compared WITH gasoline / Not "Some fuels compared TO gasoline!! So if I was to guess, they are taking the octane rating of both. I'm not a scientist, I just know what works better!!

What? That makes no sense. Octane rating of both... both what? Gasoline and methanol mixed together?

In order for your RON to be that high mixed with gasoline you are talking about using like a table spoon of gas per gallon of methanol.

and.. man, calm down. You are way too hyped up over this.


The silver shurflo pump is not designed for pumping 100% methanol. Otherwise they wouldn't leak like a sieve after about a year of street use.

I'm sure the coolingmist guy will be in to talk about his pump. They obviously departed from the status quo (the shurflo) for a reason.

I have no experience with their pump but I would like to hear technical data comparing both pumps. I'd specifically like to know how they addressed the problem of external leakage from the pump head and the pressure switch area of the pumps.

 

[Razor]

The silver shurflo pump is not designed for pumping 100% methanol. Otherwise they wouldn't leak like a sieve after about a year of street use.

.

Wrong, the color of the pump has nothing to do with its ability to handle mathanol. The type of seals does. We use a custom valve not EPDM.. and have not had a single failure since its introduction late 2005. Not one. And you cannot buy the pump I sell from Shurflo. Just like you cannot buy a Barry Grant carb from Holley. Becuase of the extensive modifications.

Now.. the leak comes from the diaphram. ALL Shurflo's are built with either Geolast or Santoprene. Thats it. If the diaphram is contaminated with gasoline, oil, something not 100% methanol.. then the diaphram reacts by shrinking. This shrinking is then where the leak comes from. So if your killing pumps.. 9 out of 10 times.. you are running contaminated alcohol/have run contaminated alcohol.

This is why the warranty question. Becuase I hate someone saying "Lifetime Warranty" then voiding it :redface: . I dont offer Lifetime, but do offer a one year unconditional. Just like Turbonetics does on its Ball Bearing turbo's.

Have a great day

 

[scot w.]

What? That makes no sense. Octane rating of both... both what? Gasoline and methanol mixed together?

In order for your RON to be that high mixed with gasoline you are talking about using like a table spoon of gas per gallon of methanol.

and.. man, calm down. You are way too hyped up over this.

Yeah I would guess that is what they were talking about, I did'nt do the test they did! And don't let those Big Bold letters fool you, I'm totally calm and the only reason those certian words were in bold is some people like to mis-read things. That makes it easyier for people to see the point / It don't mean that i'm hyped up!

Scot W.

 

[coolingmist]

Well here is the recomendation on your very own site!

coolingmist: "While this pump is chemically compatible with any mixture of alcohol, Shurflo and Coolingmist recommend running a maximum mixture of 50/50. The manufacturer of the pump (SHURFLO) and Coolingmist will not be held liable for any engine fire that results from mis-use or malfunction of the pump".

See my next point

**Thats where I recived my facts from!! As your pump may be made to handle Straight Methanol (which we don't know cause you recomend a maximum of 50/50% mix).

Thats called CYA, its a dislcamer. You catch your vehicle on fire, its not our fault. Do it at your own risk.

Your pump is also maxed out at 150psi and as I belive Alkycontrols is tested out at 250psi with no problems!

Our pump is MAXED out at 150 and Alkycontrols ist est at 250 with no problems, wow. Let me clue you in on something. Pressure is determined on the nozzle size or the resistance in the line. Shurflo does NOT make a 250 PSI pump. Further more, with a large nozzle that your vehicle must have you will not hit 250 PSI with your pump. Furthermore, 250 PSI is attainable with a smaller nozzle if you remove the bypass switch (on either pump), however doing so will limit the life of the pump. More pressure = more amp draw=lower life. Put a pressure gauge at your injector and video it at 250 for us.

Shurflo makes both our pumps, Ours is made directly from them, Alkycontrol changes the pump in house. there can be differences in cams, seals, however its not voo doo.

You also state on your site that your pump is the only pump made by shurflo to handle 100% methanol. I don't think so!!

I said its the only one made by shurflo that they make with the intention saying of runing a mixture of alcohol and water. Our pump is made BY shurflo for us. Alkycontrols pump is not a model made direct for them. They take a pump, change out the sales and do what ever with the pump. My statement is accurate. However, Its probably time to remove that from the site anyway as there are other companies now that get the pump made by shurflo.

MY WHOLE POINT OF ME POSTING WAS TO SHOW THAT 100% METHANOL WORKS BETTER, HAS MORE POSSITIVE RESULTS THAN THE 50/50 CRAP! I'm just a firm beliver in 100% methanol...

Hey (dees75z) 50/50 mix is even sold by some of the distributors now!

I dont have any problem with what you think. I stay neutral. Our customers can run 100%, they can run 50/50. Its up to them. I only take offense when someone comes along and trys to represent our product in a negative way or makes false statements.

David

 

[coolingmist]

The silver shurflo pump is not designed for pumping 100% methanol. Otherwise they wouldn't leak like a sieve after about a year of street use.

I'm sure the coolingmist guy will be in to talk about his pump. They obviously departed from the status quo (the shurflo) for a reason.

I have no experience with their pump but I would like to hear technical data comparing both pumps. I'd specifically like to know how they addressed the problem of external leakage from the pump head and the pressure switch area of the pumps.

Our old silver pump from about 2 years ago had viton seals. Our new ones are EPDM. The viton is not compatible with methanol. The first thing we did was have those replaced from Shurflo. The next thing we did was have the pump head changed from POLY to NYLON so it can handle much higher pressure and not warp as easy as the polyethelyn pump heads.

His pump and are pump are based on the same base. Ours is manufactured by shurflo to a higher spec than our old one. Alkycontrol takes the shurflo pump and makes changes to it.

Our lifetime warranty is the best warranty in the business.


David