Buick Skyhawk Turbo

Always have liked the little H-Body cars, especially the Buicks! Those builds will be awesome when you guys get done!;)
 
vicious6 said:
Always have liked the little H-Body cars, especially the Buicks! Those builds will be awesome when you guys get done!;)
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My car is done,we'll it's never done.

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carl creque said:
10secvega said:
My car is done,we'll it's never done.

Mine is still in surgery. :frown:
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Su 09 Nov 2008

Dear Carl:

As the owner of an '83 El Camino [me, a decades-long Ford enthusiast], I decided to 1st update my ailing Turbo 350 C transmission [lock-up converter], with a conversion to a 200-R4; then to LATER drop-in a late model truck 350 [4 bolt mains]. This, Carl is how I discovered you, via this forum (PS YOUR car is PHAT!)

I would prefer the engine choice to have been a late model LS series engine, or even a 3.8 Buick GN engine, but, the sensibility of such a large $ investment in this PARTICULAR El Camino, is questionable. [eg: '83's are valued at only +/- $10 k in #1 restored condition, while a '70 / '71 similar model is worth $29.5 k! duh...]

Why I joined this forum is to share my journey with the modifications to / installation of the 200- R4. I am sorting-out all the mods / cost to bullet-proof that conversion [car is daily driver], and ask people like you to share discoveries you have made. Most importantly, though, my LACK of "working" knowledge" of the GN Turbo Buick Engine.

My brief background encapsules being a Buick line mechanic in '68 / '69; later, working w/ the late funny car racer, Malcolm Durham several times over the past 40 years; building many outrageous "street" hot rods [notably, the '64 Falcon w/ 428 FE engine, straight axle, 9" rear, C-6 transmission which was my then '68-'69 daily driver *the axle was 'cuz we didn't have strut front ends back then. The technology was NOT available to hot rodders until much later]; am an [expired certificates]: ASE Master Truck and Auto Mechanic; ASE Master Machinist: currently working as a mechanic w/ USPS Vehicle Maintenace [boring!!]; and frustrated driving the 140 Hp, high mileage 305 El - which is a nice car, but horribly........un-exciting.

Questions you might know are: Which 3.8 BLOCK-CRANK configuration [odd fire vs even fire] is the best to build; and WHY is that so?
Where can I get that at a reasonable cost?
What is the Hp capabilities of this engine under HIGH boost as compared to overall cost to achieve that level of power? [likely would use Snow water / methanol injection to deal w/ detonation issues]
How stable would such a package be - ie: would it be durable, or a virtual 'hand grenade'?

Anyway, I hope I haven't taxed-you to much w/ my initial questions. Maybe someone else in this forum will also offer their knowledge and experience.

FYI: I compliment you on your apparent (photos) workmanship, and choice of cars. What rear axle are you runnig? What about traction and 'hooking' it up to not be just a tire-burner? It should fly!!!

Thank you for any suggestions, or references to other sources of reliable data.

Peace, Amir.
Click to expand...
 
amirchela said:
carl creque said:
Su 09 Nov 2008

Dear Carl:

As the owner of an '83 El Camino [me, a decades-long Ford enthusiast], I decided to 1st update my ailing Turbo 350 C transmission [lock-up converter], with a conversion to a 200-R4; then to LATER drop-in a late model truck 350 [4 bolt mains]. This, Carl is how I discovered you, via this forum (PS YOUR car is PHAT!)

I would prefer the engine choice to have been a late model LS series engine, or even a 3.8 Buick GN engine, but, the sensibility of such a large $ investment in this PARTICULAR El Camino, is questionable. [eg: '83's are valued at only +/- $10 k in #1 restored condition, while a '70 / '71 similar model is worth $29.5 k! duh...]

Why I joined this forum is to share my journey with the modifications to / installation of the 200- R4. I am sorting-out all the mods / cost to bullet-proof that conversion [car is daily driver], and ask people like you to share discoveries you have made. Most importantly, though, my LACK of "working" knowledge" of the GN Turbo Buick Engine.

My brief background encapsules being a Buick line mechanic in '68 / '69; later, working w/ the late funny car racer, Malcolm Durham several times over the past 40 years; building many outrageous "street" hot rods [notably, the '64 Falcon w/ 428 FE engine, straight axle, 9" rear, C-6 transmission which was my then '68-'69 daily driver *the axle was 'cuz we didn't have strut front ends back then. The technology was NOT available to hot rodders until much later]; am an [expired certificates]: ASE Master Truck and Auto Mechanic; ASE Master Machinist: currently working as a mechanic w/ USPS Vehicle Maintenace [boring!!]; and frustrated driving the 140 Hp, high mileage 305 El - which is a nice car, but horribly........un-exciting.

Questions you might know are: Which 3.8 BLOCK-CRANK configuration [odd fire vs even fire] is the best to build; and WHY is that so?
Where can I get that at a reasonable cost?
What is the Hp capabilities of this engine under HIGH boost as compared to overall cost to achieve that level of power? [likely would use Snow water / methanol injection to deal w/ detonation issues]
How stable would such a package be - ie: would it be durable, or a virtual 'hand grenade'?

Anyway, I hope I haven't taxed-you to much w/ my initial questions. Maybe someone else in this forum will also offer their knowledge and experience.

FYI: I compliment you on your apparent (photos) workmanship, and choice of cars. What rear axle are you runnig? What about traction and 'hooking' it up to not be just a tire-burner? It should fly!!!

Thank you for any suggestions, or references to other sources of reliable data.

Peace, Amir.
Click to expand...


Hi, Amir. Thanks for the compliment on my car, but it is a little mis-directed. The only credit I can really take for it is the idea to do it. I also only know what I have read and researched about the GN drivetrains. Scott (UR50SLO) on the board here is doing the conversion on my car. He also built the engine for it. Obviously he is a very talented individual. Real stand up guy, too.

I will attempt to answer some of your questions with my limited knowledge. All of the GN engines were odd fire. The stock block of choice is called a 109 block. 109 is the last 3 digits of the block casting number. There are also aftermarket blocks that are stronger up to the all aluminum TA Performance block (capable of handling 2000 horsepower!). For the rest of your questions about durability and cost, I suggest you talk to one of the various vendors. Others on the board here will chime in with who they are I am sure.

Right now the rear end in my Skyhawk is a stock 7.5. It is very similar to the rear end in your El Camino. I have a few parts to beef it up and I hope that it lasts a while. The Skyhawk has a torque arm suspension from the factory which is similar to the later Camaros/Firebirds. It works fairly well in stock form. Scott has installed subframe connectors and beefed up weak areas of the car quite a bit. I hope that it doesn't blow the tires off when he gets it up and running. One good thing about the turbo cars is that the power comes on smoothly and doesn't shock the suspension too much.

Hope I was able to help some. I am sure others with much more knowledge than me will jump in to help you.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you Carl...

Amir.... Sounds like you've been around doing some neat stuff back in the day when it was realy hopp'n. I sure wish I was born earlier to have been in such a neat time.
I commend you for looking into a newer engine for your car. I think more guys are doing the same as the wall is starting to tumble down as EFI get's more affordable and understandable.

The Buick engine that came in the 86/7 Buick GN is very versital and is capible of making very dependable power along with excellent street driveability and best of all MPG! It's tough to find all that in one package.
They can be found in the classified section on this board for 1500-2500ish depending on mileage/mods/completeness of setup.
The newer LS1 base engines are another great leap in performance with good mileage.

Carl's engine bay will be very similar to mine when it is all complete. All wires hidden,pipes painted and ran in a manor that's easy to work on and cosmeticly appealing at the same time. There's alot of thought that go's into doing a hybrid. Takes some time and effort but the results are worth it!

Pic's of my car below. It's my daily driver in the summer and get's 20mpg.
Runs on regular 93oct with no meth/alky. I will get 9.90's out of it in the spring for sure!
E-mail me if you have any questions be glad to answer them.
~Scott
CamaroatMartin1.JPG


CamaroatMartin3.JPG
 
Thank you... If you'd like more pictures of the Camaro I'll be glad to e-mail them to you.
This thread isn't about my car ;)

I'll be posting some more pic's of Carl's Sky Hawk next week when it go's back on the hoist for final hook up. All the accrys are on it now including A/C.
Throttle body ect.
I realy think the radials that are on the rear of the car are going to not last very long!
~Scott
 
StartUp Video and inside shot.
I'll post final pic's....
My last Turbo Buick Hybrid.
Thanks to Carl for his Patience and Grace.
~Scott

 
Very nice camaro. I saw one go 296 mph at Bonneville with a Stage II in 2003. Amir, all GN engines were even fire, not odd fire. The odd fires vibrate and shake a lot. There were some stage II odd fire engines, but they were mainly race engines used, I think, in Nascar (not sure) and maybe road race GTP cars and Indy cars. Don't take my word on how they were used, but they did exist.
 
Carl, very nice H body. My brother and I have been working on a Pontiac sunbird 109 swap for far too long. Probably a good 15 or more years. Life kept getting in the way. We are at a point we are going to go back to it. It was running and drivable, but just not "there"yet. We are probably going to go to a late model Camaro 3.8 and fab the rest. How did you get your exhaust manifolds and downpipe to fit. Are you using the 109 block and heads or any mix and match or parts to get a narrower engine? I have read some heads are narrower. We have done Spindles from a G body on ours for bigger brakes and 5 lug wheels, Axles from S series also for better brakes and 5 lug wheels and an auburn 3.42 center, and rear discs. Proportioning valve, 2004R. We just need to get the engine to fit better and run stronger. Ours is also a hot air motor, we plan to go to IC . Have you run yours and if so what did it run?Do you have any pictures of the fabrication and install?
thank you.
Jay
 
The block is from a 85 like yours.... Stock pistons/rods/crank .. heads are also stock.. The rest is 86/7 intercooled stuff. The stock headers will fit. I had to modify the drivers side so the steering shaft will go through it. The cross over is also modified. We are having trouble with turning radius at the moment... I don't think from what Carl had said that it was "Great" from the factory but now it's not enough. We tried a Chevette rack and I think we are going with a flaming river rack that has a better turning radious. He also I think has better upper control arms that help and bigger front brakes and better rear axels. He's running a 3:08 rear gear if I remmeber right... and a locker. I thought the turbo was a 6052 but I didn't order it. It seemed pretty responsive the way it was... even with the low gear on low boost. A newer SeriesII V6 would fit fine as well. THe heads are a different design and would help some. The newer engines are actually a better design and cheap. So I'd say go for it. I've done 5 turbo kits on the SeriesII in the Camaro and firebirds. Let me know if you have more questions, UR50SLO@aol.com Be glad to help. Scott~
 
this car has been in the family since 82 and it's an 80. I can tell you the turning radius on them stock SUCKED. it seems almost any turn is 3 point turn that is a doable u-turn in other cars. They just dont have a good radius. Never had a good radius, then if you put some decent tires under it, they rub at full lock, so more lock is going to need some modifications to fix the rubbing. I was just reading about swapping control arms from side to side for better caster. I'll have to look and see if that would improve the rubbing. We are set up similarly, but we have a 3.42. in retrospect, it's too much gear. 3.08 or 2.93 I think would be better. Ours is hot air and it is such a hodge podge of stuff to make it fit. I'd like to get a series 2 motor and start from scratch. Plus reading how much more responsive the series 2 is, I really like the sound of that. Intercooler, I'd just like to make 450 RWHP, I think the car would be awfully fast at that power level.

Jay
 
I wish I had that problem with my 88 RX7. Steering is so touchy. I am workin at liking it ;) How light are those cars ??? I think mine is about 3000#s.. It FLY's !!! Any new pics ???
 
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