Bored @ work just some ideas

[BeanSS]

Well im bored at work so I got a few things on my mind I was just wondering and just wanted to throw out ther for options and out of the box thinking and what not


I see that it's kind of common to for hot rodders to take intake manifolds and make them EFI compatible...adding fuel rails and injectors and what not..this would leave only a change in wiring in the harness and the ECU correct?

I was thinking about AJ messing with his TBI setup and him saying that the carb was putting more fuel into the motor than the TBI unit because he felt of the linkage.

The Intake is one of our biggest Achilles heel, Even in the 84-85's and the Weiand intake which is alot like the 86-87 intake is the bees knees and the Kenne Bell intake as well.

So why not take the Weiand or Kenne Bell intake, modify it for EFI, and get our ECU programed (Or by one off the shelf or somewhere) to run the whole thing? We wouldn't be have to change an around our setups, Could use Charlie's modified Turbo, and not have the issues the other years have with electrics? And we could go intercooled if we wanted?

Just something I was thinking about...I have a friend who is DOPE at programing he was talking about programing and tuning his SRT-4 and some other cars is when this idea hit me.

Anybody got any spare ECU's laying around? Maybe we could take a stand alone one from one of the many EFI companies out here? I really can't see why this wouldn't be another feasible option for some of us, and it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to boot! What do you think? Im saving up to get another Weiand intake ...im thinking the hardest or most challenging part will actually be the computer thing.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

lol... at that point might as well make it the regular EFI intercooled car and call it done. the engineering is already there.

what your asking for is basicly the HA system.

think about it, add injectors and dry out the intake, now keep it draw thru.... and you have a HA system.

I had ben thinking about doing just as you say, except using a HA harness and an edelbrock intake. the ECM will read just the same, but the flow is much much better!

A.j.

 

[BeanSS]

lol... at that point might as well make it the regular EFI intercooled car and call it done. the engineering is already there.

what your asking for is basicly the HA system.

think about it, add injectors and dry out the intake, now keep it draw thru.... and you have a HA system.

I had ben thinking about doing just as you say, except using a HA harness and an edelbrock intake. the ECM will read just the same, but the flow is much much better!

A.j.

Haha!! That's EXACTLY what im getting at! I just was thinking about a way to get around the "Intake manifold" issue! Im seriously thinking about giving it a shot on my 4.1! I was just thinking it would make things a little easier to work with.

Were you thinking of using the Edie Brock because it's dual plane over the Weiand?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Haha!! That's EXACTLY what im getting at! I just was thinking about a way to get around the "Intake manifold" issue! Im seriously thinking about giving it a shot on my 4.1! I was just thinking it would make things a little easier to work with.

Were you thinking of using the Edie Brock because it's dual plane over the Weiand?

I was, simply because its dry under boost. the fuel sheer issues go away. However, because its dual plane, you retain the torque for easy driving on the street.

however, your still limited at what the ECM and the system can do, but the parts are much easier to find. HA harnesses are dime a dozen, the sensors not that hard to find. it will just take some mods to pull it off.

the catch, still needs a CARBON seal turbo to work right.....

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

I was, simply because its dry under boost. the fuel sheer issues go away. However, because its dual plane, you retain the torque for easy driving on the street.

however, your still limited at what the ECM and the system can do, but the parts are much easier to find. HA harnesses are dime a dozen, the sensors not that hard to find. it will just take some mods to pull it off.

the catch, still needs a CARBON seal turbo to work right.....

A.j.

Not to mention you'll need some sort of throttle body with electronic sensors. I have seen one adapted to an IC car on a 301 TTA turbo so it will work though.:biggrin: Not quite sure why it was done but it did work after all.

 

[MNcarbturbo]

Ive thought about it a while, and it almost is pointless to change the intake.

The stock C/T setup is fine at stock or slightly moded levels, but when you want to go into the 12's, it just doesnt work.

Not to mention, a 12.99 is fast, maybe not compared to a "tastefully" modded 86/87 GN/T, but its faster than essentially 98% of everything out there.

The block is proven into 500+ HP no issues with decent parts. Exhaust, on a CT the DP is junk, get rid of it. Intake is junk, and turbo is something you would find on nothing in real life. Seems buick engineers where in their own little world. There is no decent monitoring equipment, a carb isnt exactly precise without a A/F guage. And being able to see knock retard like a SFI car, not without some work.

So you end up replacing everthing minus the block, and by the time you get to it, were are you?

An EFI/wieand would be cool, use a FAST unit with a throttle body, and injectors in the runners, and make it intercooled, cool! But its the same thing as a GN.

No matter what way you do it, it turns into what you get when you want a GN to run 9's, but you would run 11's.

Its a vicious circle!

Blowthroughs are cool, and cheep (compared to just buying a $9000 GN) but you have to know how to tune it. Plus, most people believe a blwothrough is 1998 tech and EFI is the way to go, which it sorta is, kinda.

 

[WarWagon]

Run it on Natural gas fuel and eliminate the wet intake charge.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

just have to have the balls to be different.

right Adam?

LOL

A.j.

 

[BeanSS]

Haha hell 11's and 12's don't bother me at all!!

My thinking was getting some type of EFI without some of the shortcomings of the Hot Airs with out the hassles of the IC cars wiring and what not and STILL keeping it cheap.
I've got some mods already done and or in the works for my 83 and uhmmm..I'd HATE to have to go back and totally change up because I went SFI and or Intercooled ya know? The mods you guys come up with sound pretty damn ill and they work, So i'd like to work with what I got.

I figure since I got a 4.1 laying around and my car drives....I can tinker with the 4.1....so im pretty much just leaving my 3.8 alone as a d/d and trying to figure out supporting mods for when I do drop my 4.1 in there.

Hey that ECU...is it limited in performance because nobody has really tried to get in there and tune it or because of hardware capabilities because it's older than an ATARI5600?

Now when you say use a FAST unit...do you mean buy a FAST XFI setup? Which would mean that I wouldn't need a ECM right? I know they do programing for the ECM but this would have to be a last step if I would do this...I need to grab a wiring harness (Probablly be a ) then tune it.

I understand retaing the torque which makes it easier to drive in the streets (which is where i'd be 90% of the time). I figured though since it's been said that the Eddie Brock has a fuel slosh issue, and the Weiand is more like the IC GN intake it would be the better one to mod...Would the dual plane really make that much of a difference?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Haha hell 11's and 12's don't bother me at all!!

Hey that ECU...is it limited in performance because nobody has really tried to get in there and tune it or because of hardware capabilities because it's older than an ATARI5600??

thats one of the biggest factors.... thats why most upgrade to 86/87 ECM.

Now when you say use a FAST unit...do you mean buy a FAST XFI setup? Which would mean that I wouldn't need a ECM right? I know they do programing for the ECM but this would have to be a last step if I would do this...I need to grab a wiring harness (Probablly be a ) then tune it.?

the fast setup has its own ECU, but at that point, your way over what the stock ECU is...more tuning, and better control. but your gonna spend a grand in getting it all together.

I understand retaing the torque which makes it easier to drive in the streets (which is where i'd be 90% of the time). I figured though since it's been said that the Eddie Brock has a fuel slosh issue, and the Weiand is more like the IC GN intake it would be the better one to mod...Would the dual plane really make that much of a difference?

like I said, if your Injecting it, your drying out the intake... as fuel would be injected at the ports. The edelbrock would be just fine in this manner, and as you have seen in many factory cars, high performance or not, long intake runners for improved low RPM operation. However if you have intentions of using a TBI unit of sorts, then by all means use the weiand.

A.j.

 

[BeanSS]

^^^
Ahhh it's becoming more clear now!
Damn this really can be done! Hmmm...

As for spending over a grand..pfft that's nothing! I'll just whore myself out
to fat girls with deep pockets when I'm out playing wingman with 83Turbo!

 

[WarWagon]

^^^ your killing with the humor! More more..
Just have to be different for sure A.j. Normality is very very boring and slow.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

lmao...

this thread is receeding!

A.j.

 

[WarWagon]

The Ecu that Retrotek built and put in the powerjectionIII is pretty nice. But damn there are soo many companies building ecu/ecm nowadays.

 

[BeanSS]

The Ecu that Retrotek built and put in the powerjectionIII is pretty nice. But damn there are soo many companies building ecu/ecm nowadays.

Yep...there's a gang of em' out there now.

EFI Conversions

^^^
One of the spots I found that offers this type of service in converting manifolds
Haven't checked 'em out yet though....just figured I'd post up


Hey if we could ever figure out how to get those expensive ass Stage 2 intake manifolds that pop up on EBAY to fit to our heads we could really something going!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Hey if we could ever figure out how to get those expensive ass Stage 2 intake manifolds that pop up on EBAY to fit to our heads we could really something going!

Ive got all the stage 2 manifolds you could need.

the price of a fast injection system, will buy you springs and valves for 1 stage 2 head.

lol.

A.j.

 

[b4black]

lol... at that point might as well make it the regular EFI intercooled car and call it done. the engineering is already there.

I haven't read the enitire thread, but I totally agree with this statement.

Either do the best you can with the factory draw-thru, or go to a blow thru carb arangement. If you find yourself going further than that, then you might as well get a 86/87 setup - doesn't seen to be a limit on how fast that can go.

 

[b4black]

The stock C/T setup is fine at stock or slightly moded levels, but when you want to go into the 12's, it just doesnt work.

I think 12's are possible on a carb/turbo. I haven't gotten into my motor, and I believe if I could get everything dailed in right, I could squeek out a high 13 second run.

Use a 4.1 with good heads and roller cam as foundation, and I think 12's are in sight (with the factory carb/turbo). I'd be happy with a 12 second car.

 

[charlief1]

I think 12's are possible on a carb/turbo. I haven't gotten into my motor, and I believe if I could get everything dailed in right, I could squeek out a high 13 second run.

Use a 4.1 with good heads and roller cam as foundation, and I think 12's are in sight (with the factory carb/turbo). I'd be happy with a 12 second car.

I honestly think 11's are posible Rich, but it will have to be heavily modified intake ect. Getting the supension working right and everything else is the key here though.:smile:

 

[BeanSS]

^^^
I think they are too...(11's)

I think the modded fuel injected intake would be cool as hell!...Still thinking about that as an option just because it would not only be different...it works and it would be an improvement...Oh and it's cheap!!