after much deliberation i've decided against using a double pumper. i'm going to use the red aeromotive pump that flows 500 lph. my question is on what fuel lines to run or can i run the stock lines ( goal 10.70-80's) if i upgrade the lines i would suppose i would need new fuel rails and a different reg right? thanks for any info!
aeromotive fuel pump
- Thread starter matt87
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Well be sure to check the rated delivery curves for fuel delivery at 12v and 80 psi. That pump may not cut it under those conditions. If you mean the 11101 then it only flows 350 lb/hr at 70 psi, where the rating curve stops. You could extend the plot and guesstimate what it might flow at 80 psi. Not sure what its max pressure is though. Might be a little close for your goals, depending on the actual pump pressure and voltage.
The 11104 shows 450 lbs/hr at 70 psi and 12v.
FWIW I ran into the 130's mph with a staged double pumper and the stock lines and filter with no signs of problems at all. not sure how far it will actually go with teh stock lines. Maybe the 140's, who knows. Hard to beat the ease of dropping that in and going
In fact I'll be running the same setup with a -8 feed line and screen type filter for now with the new 274" stage motor and we'll see just how far that will go. I'd guess it'll go close to 1000 hp, but just a guess for now. if there's any sign of delivery falloff the FAST ecu will catch it, and the inj duty cycle will show a strange movement up.
TurboTR
Well be sure to check the rated delivery curves for fuel delivery at 12v and 80 psi. That pump may not cut it under those conditions. If you mean the 11101 then it only flows 350 lb/hr at 70 psi, where the rating curve stops. You could extend the plot and guesstimate what it might flow at 80 psi. Not sure what its max pressure is though. Might be a little close for your goals, depending on the actual pump pressure and voltage.
The 11104 shows 450 lbs/hr at 70 psi and 12v.
FWIW I ran into the 130's mph with a staged double pumper and the stock lines and filter with no signs of problems at all. not sure how far it will actually go with teh stock lines. Maybe the 140's, who knows. Hard to beat the ease of dropping that in and going
In fact I'll be running the same setup with a -8 feed line and screen type filter for now with the new 274" stage motor and we'll see just how far that will go. I'd guess it'll go close to 1000 hp, but just a guess for now. if there's any sign of delivery falloff the FAST ecu will catch it, and the inj duty cycle will show a strange movement up.TurboTR
FWIW I just last week installed the 11101 after my SX pooped the bed and went to track yesterday and ran 11.0'-10.9's at 24 psi all day long with my injector duty cycle in the mid 60's. I have a fel pro and when my SX was going bad it picked up a duty cycle of over 100 switched pumps and problem went away. I also run 72's FWIW. Hope that helps, just my own experience. Best of luck Matt.
Well to talk pump capacity we really should be talking hp, as indicated by trap speeds. Buicksx2, what was your trap speed range? With duty cycle in the 60's % on 72's, I'm going to guess the low 120's mph? If that range the 11101 should be more than adequate, and so is a single in tank Walbro 340 through the stock lines for that matter. JMO.
FWIW at least one of the major aftermarket turbo kit makers no longer sells fuel systems that use these red pumps- too many failures was the explanation ;-) YMMV.
TurboTR
FWIW at least one of the major aftermarket turbo kit makers no longer sells fuel systems that use these red pumps- too many failures was the explanation ;-) YMMV.
TurboTR
TurboTR you're exactly right...122 mph yesterday. I had the double pumper with stock fuel lines and it didn't work for me. So I decided to go another route with the SX and it had served me well until it went a couple weeks ago. I hope the Aeromotive serves me as well and as long as the SX did for me, then again I won't be making HP to exceed that pump, if ever I did then the gold colored one I saw on Jack's car yesterday would be in order or a weldon. Best of luck.
Thing of that is 72's at say 70% are only flowing 50.8# of fuel. 50*6 = 300# of fuel. If it flows 350# at 70psi then you're OK. I was told delivery on that pump falls off sharp over 55-60psi. And if your base is 50psi, and you're running 25psi, you're at 75# fp. But if you up your fuel requirement much, I think you'll start seeing those corrections go the other way. LIke Todd said, a 340m would do that just fine for $130, and will support mid 600's HP. (Yes, I know PTE said 750, but I like a fudge factor).
Hate to say it, but I dont think that red pump is in my future. I may never go fast enuf to need it, but I dont wanna haveta worry about it. I think the 11104 (rated to 900hp forced induction) for $400 is a $200 insurance policy. Or even the 11102 for $300 more (rated to 1200hp forced induction)
Hate to say it, but I dont think that red pump is in my future. I may never go fast enuf to need it, but I dont wanna haveta worry about it. I think the 11104 (rated to 900hp forced induction) for $400 is a $200 insurance policy. Or even the 11102 for $300 more (rated to 1200hp forced induction)
Well the graphs that Aero publishes are in terms of lbs/hr of flow vs pressure and voltage. Other mfgr's will show volume flow (like gal/hr), which can be converted to mass flow. We pick the worst case conditions for our application and get the flow number from the graph. Once you know the flow number you assume a BSFC for your engine and use that to calculate the hp the pump will support. Once the hp support is known you use that to estimate a trap speed range.
Or find out how fast someone else has gone with it in a similar car combo, and without scattering parts on a regular basis
The 11104 shows 450 lb/hr of flow at 70 psi and 12v. If you can live with the 70 psi and 12v spec, and assume a conservative BSFC of say 0.55 lb/hr/hp then you get 450 / 0.55 = 818 hp. That's engine hp. Then we'd have to estimate rear wheel hp and then a trap speed range. I don't recall if the Lubrant chart is in terms of wheel hp (I assume it is), but it serves as a good rough guide for hp vs trap speed.
TurboTR
Or find out how fast someone else has gone with it in a similar car combo, and without scattering parts on a regular basis
The 11104 shows 450 lb/hr of flow at 70 psi and 12v. If you can live with the 70 psi and 12v spec, and assume a conservative BSFC of say 0.55 lb/hr/hp then you get 450 / 0.55 = 818 hp. That's engine hp. Then we'd have to estimate rear wheel hp and then a trap speed range. I don't recall if the Lubrant chart is in terms of wheel hp (I assume it is), but it serves as a good rough guide for hp vs trap speed.
TurboTR
Todd, can I get a copy of that graph? jim@turbojim.com
Sorry Jim, I just have a stone age setup here at the house- catalog hardcopy And no copier. My "digital camera" lately is an old (early 90's ?) Intel Pro Share desktop conferencing camera rescued from the dumpster, and it prolly won't do a graph much justice either. In fact my PC here is still an old Intel Pentium Pro 200 desktop system, rescued from a similar fate I know, I know... But anyway, the catalog is easy enough to request and receive, or if you just need some numbers in particular I'll be more than happy to look 'em up for you.
Interesting that the aeromotiveinc.com website doesn't list any EFI pumps other than the "Product #111-01-BF 1000 hp fuel pump". Hmm. Where's the pride in the other ones?
Louie in this case the only way I'd use 13.5v is if I could 100% guarantee that there is always at least 13.5v applied across the pump terminals themselves. To do otherwise is, well, bad
engineering
PS I messed up, the 11101 graph actually shows about 375 lb/hr at 70 psi and 12v, not 350. My bad.
TurboTR
And no copier. My "digital camera" lately is an old (early 90's ?) Intel Pro Share desktop conferencing camera rescued from the dumpster, and it prolly won't do a graph much justice either. In fact my PC here is still an old Intel Pentium Pro 200 desktop system, rescued from a similar fate I know, I know... But anyway, the catalog is easy enough to request and receive, or if you just need some numbers in particular I'll be more than happy to look 'em up for you.Interesting that the aeromotiveinc.com website doesn't list any EFI pumps other than the "Product #111-01-BF 1000 hp fuel pump". Hmm. Where's the pride in the other ones?
Louie in this case the only way I'd use 13.5v is if I could 100% guarantee that there is always at least 13.5v applied across the pump terminals themselves. To do otherwise is, well, bad
engineering
PS I messed up, the 11101 graph actually shows about 375 lb/hr at 70 psi and 12v, not 350. My bad.
TurboTR
If you down load the PDF catalog file from the site , the charts for all the pumps are in there.
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/downloads/catalog2001.pdf
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/downloads/catalog2001.pdf
Originally posted by TurboTR
Louie in this case the only way I'd use 13.5v is if I could 100% guarantee that there is always at least 13.5v applied across the pump terminals themselves. To do otherwise is, well, bad
engineering
TurboTR
Are you going through deja vu, Louie? The fuel system is just no place to cut corners. Especially on a low 9 sec stage motor. I wouldn't trust an Aeromotive on any TR close to 1000hp. It will probably work, but it's too close for my liking, BTDT.
X
xelar8
Guest
Rich,
Just want to make the point that even with a good single pump you can damage your engine if it goes down during a run just as you described it.
"FWIW I just last week installed the 11101 after my SX pooped the bed . I have a fel pro and when my SX was going bad it picked up a duty cycle of over 100 switched pumps and problem went away."
If it got any weaker during that run you could have had trouble. Point being that sometimes they dont just fail all at once and shut off. So whether its a dbl pumper or a single SX, Aeromotive etc there can be failures.
Just want to make the point that even with a good single pump you can damage your engine if it goes down during a run just as you described it.
"FWIW I just last week installed the 11101 after my SX pooped the bed . I have a fel pro and when my SX was going bad it picked up a duty cycle of over 100 switched pumps and problem went away."
If it got any weaker during that run you could have had trouble. Point being that sometimes they dont just fail all at once and shut off. So whether its a dbl pumper or a single SX, Aeromotive etc there can be failures.
