4.3 syclone engine in GN
- Thread starter nboost
- Start date
if your willing to go through all the work for little if anything, then of corse its possible. you CAN put any engine in anything if your willing to go through the work.
if your asking about using just the block then nope, it doesn't work, its something in the bolt configurations. there is a 4.1 used in other buicks, correct me if i'm wrong on that, that will work. i think you just need the block and pistons. the crank, rods, cam, eveyrthing works. again i could be wrong on this, i haven't done it but did look into doing it, not that it matters much. from what i've heard its not as stong and isn't a smart move, but then again i've seen a lot of people running really fast with them.
if your wanting a enw block just go for a stage 2
if your asking about using just the block then nope, it doesn't work, its something in the bolt configurations. there is a 4.1 used in other buicks, correct me if i'm wrong on that, that will work. i think you just need the block and pistons. the crank, rods, cam, eveyrthing works. again i could be wrong on this, i haven't done it but did look into doing it, not that it matters much. from what i've heard its not as stong and isn't a smart move, but then again i've seen a lot of people running really fast with them.
if your wanting a enw block just go for a stage 2
Aztlanahauc
Member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2003
There was a 4.3L V6 avalible in some mid-eighties Monte Carlos...which had throttle body injection...so if the Syclone 4.3L uses the same mounts ....then I guess it could be done..
turbo buicks
ESADAH!!!
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2002
if youre gonna put a chevy motor in it make it a turbo SBC or BBC. for more cubes bore it.
why bother? the 4.3L motor sucks.
you cant get a GOOD crank for it for under $2500
the performance market for the 4.3L is practially non-existant when comparted to the Turbo 3.8L market. The only reason the 4.3L even "lucks out" on half the parts is cause its based on the 5.7L, however you cant use the same rods, go figure.
....not to mention the fact that if the 3.8L uses a BOP bellhousing, your gonna need to pick up a Chevy 200R4 and have that built up cause you most definately wouldnt wanna use a 700R4/4L60, especially not one out of a SyTy, for the same reasons you wouldnt wanna run a 4.3L in the first place, the performance parts available for the 200R4 far exceed the currently available 700R4 parts.
you cant get a GOOD crank for it for under $2500
the performance market for the 4.3L is practially non-existant when comparted to the Turbo 3.8L market. The only reason the 4.3L even "lucks out" on half the parts is cause its based on the 5.7L, however you cant use the same rods, go figure.
....not to mention the fact that if the 3.8L uses a BOP bellhousing, your gonna need to pick up a Chevy 200R4 and have that built up cause you most definately wouldnt wanna use a 700R4/4L60, especially not one out of a SyTy, for the same reasons you wouldnt wanna run a 4.3L in the first place, the performance parts available for the 200R4 far exceed the currently available 700R4 parts.
I agree with 6PACK, the 4.3 is a very good engine. The 700R4 is just as good as the 2004R when built the same. I use both trannies in my vehicles with no problems, they were built to handle 700HP 10 sec truck. As for parts there is a ton for the
4.3 dealer and aftermarket. THe 4.3 will drop right in the regals
but the trans bellhousing is different. Engine parts don't mix between 3.8 and 4.3. The regals have alot more room than the
S-10 under the hood.
wlaukaitis
3rd Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2003
Yeah, my buddy has a 12,000 mile cyclone motor sitting in his garage for 10 years. I have been hounding him for it for years. He'll GIVE me the carbed 78 buick turbo motor though. Gee thanks
thats the funniest thing I ever read.
yeah, 4.3L is fine for a normal run to the supermarket vehicle, but performance application, its a nightmare.
there are a "ton" of 4.3L parts at the dealer and aftermarket huh? Go find me some dealer parts the arent stock and wont break
Go find me a steal crankshaft thats not $2500. Go find me a set of decent BOLT ON heads that you dont have to sell your first born for. Go find a part number for an aftermarket camshaft for a turbo 4.3L application. I bet you will fail on all accounts.The TH200R4 and TH700R4 are just as good when built the same, sure, I wont argue that, but how about the fact that when you build a TH200R4 with the best parts money can buy, then you try and do it with a TH700R4, you will find that you cannot buy those same parts. End of story.
I gotta go with NJ180 on this... Yes, some parts are carry overs from the SBC but thats where the advantages end.
As was stated getting an even fire forged crank is gonna cost ya and up until a few months ago you couldnt get one. Period. An odd fire (common pin) crank has been available from GM but its not cheap nor is it cheap to use it as it requires a diff cam, diff distributor, and the ability to tune it. There are only a handfull of ppl who have went odd fire so getting information /tuning help is an up hill battle to say the least. The only advantage of going odd fire other than the strength of the crank is the ability to use common SBC rods (even fire V6s dont use SBC rods).
The factory rods are marginal at best. If you detonate the engine the rods will break or deform enough on the big end to lunch the bearings. Buicks squirt out head gaskets when detonated but with the 4.3s 5 bolt per cyl head attaching set up that just doesnt happen hardly at all. The cranks will break, the rods will bend, or both.
The factory heads that came on the sytys are absolutely horrible from one end to the other. Aftermarket heads from ppl like Brodix are available but they arent cheap. Factory vortec heads will bolt on and are much better but they require redrilling to match the factory intake bolt pattern which is out of reach of the skills of some ppl. GM offers heads all the way up to the splayed valve head (set up like the BBC) but those require custom cams, intake, high dollar rocker set ups, etc. All that isnt in my price range or even close for that matter. No matter how much work you put into a set of stock syty heads the stock Buick pieces with less work will out flow them every time.
The blocks seem to be fairly durable with splayed 4 bolt main upgrades to 700+ hp. I have yet to see a well prepped stock block split in half but the crank, trans, or other parts will prolly fail before the block. Least thats the trend Ive noticed.
The stock syty mitsu turbo has HORRIBLE boost control (if you could call it control as its more like controlled over boost) as well as not being even close to efficient above ~17psi. Not to mention the heavy cast iron exhaust manifolds which may not have a leaking/cracking problem but still weigh a ton.
To sum it up if you were working with an unlimited budget then you could build either style of engine to unmatched performance but the Buick motor will get it done for less money every time if youre like 99.9% of us who need to get the best bang for the buck. A stock long block Buick motor will go high 11s all day every day. A stock long block 4.3 will do it for a while but will die eventually or the first time you detonate it more than slightly.
Personally, Id NEVER yank a turbo 3.8 and replace it with a turbo 4.3 all things being equal.
As was stated getting an even fire forged crank is gonna cost ya and up until a few months ago you couldnt get one. Period. An odd fire (common pin) crank has been available from GM but its not cheap nor is it cheap to use it as it requires a diff cam, diff distributor, and the ability to tune it. There are only a handfull of ppl who have went odd fire so getting information /tuning help is an up hill battle to say the least. The only advantage of going odd fire other than the strength of the crank is the ability to use common SBC rods (even fire V6s dont use SBC rods).
The factory rods are marginal at best. If you detonate the engine the rods will break or deform enough on the big end to lunch the bearings. Buicks squirt out head gaskets when detonated but with the 4.3s 5 bolt per cyl head attaching set up that just doesnt happen hardly at all. The cranks will break, the rods will bend, or both.
The factory heads that came on the sytys are absolutely horrible from one end to the other. Aftermarket heads from ppl like Brodix are available but they arent cheap. Factory vortec heads will bolt on and are much better but they require redrilling to match the factory intake bolt pattern which is out of reach of the skills of some ppl. GM offers heads all the way up to the splayed valve head (set up like the BBC) but those require custom cams, intake, high dollar rocker set ups, etc. All that isnt in my price range or even close for that matter. No matter how much work you put into a set of stock syty heads the stock Buick pieces with less work will out flow them every time.
The blocks seem to be fairly durable with splayed 4 bolt main upgrades to 700+ hp. I have yet to see a well prepped stock block split in half but the crank, trans, or other parts will prolly fail before the block. Least thats the trend Ive noticed.
The stock syty mitsu turbo has HORRIBLE boost control (if you could call it control as its more like controlled over boost) as well as not being even close to efficient above ~17psi. Not to mention the heavy cast iron exhaust manifolds which may not have a leaking/cracking problem but still weigh a ton.
To sum it up if you were working with an unlimited budget then you could build either style of engine to unmatched performance but the Buick motor will get it done for less money every time if youre like 99.9% of us who need to get the best bang for the buck. A stock long block Buick motor will go high 11s all day every day. A stock long block 4.3 will do it for a while but will die eventually or the first time you detonate it more than slightly.
Personally, Id NEVER yank a turbo 3.8 and replace it with a turbo 4.3 all things being equal.
turbofish38
Le Pétomane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2002
Just like the 3.8 Buick, the 4.3 Chevy was the prefered choice in NASCAR in the Busch Grand National series before they went back to V-8s. Any body who says there aren't any good performance parts aint looking to hard. Dont forget the 4.3 was just a 305/350 SBC with 2 cylinders cut off.
Ummm... a 4.3 is NOT a 350 with two cylinders lopped off as far as the high stress components .. An odd fire 4.3 is close but a production even fire isnt (see prev post in reference to odd fire con rods).
NASCAR used bow tie blocks which have V8 style oiling system where as the production blocks are not V8 style oiling (nor can production blocks be converted to V8 oiling). NASCAR used odd fire cranks (common pin) but production 4.3s are even fire.
Like I said, some pieces will carry over from the SBC engine but your high stress pieces will not unless you go odd fire except for pistons. Also, as I stated only a hand full of ppl in syty land have went odd fire so getting it tuned once its togeather is a PIA unless you have a LOT of resources at your disposal.
FWIW... Pieces that will interchange between a production 4.3 and a SBC:
Push rods
Rocker arms
Lifters
Valve springs
Valves
Timing chains
Timing chain covers
Oil pumps
Oil pump drive
Main bearings
Pistons/rings
Water pumps
Starters
Flywheels/flex plates
Things that will NOT interchange:
Connecting rods/rod bolts
Rod bearings
Cranks (obviously)
Cams (ditto here also)
Push rod guide plates
Distributors
If you look closely at the above list (Im sure I missed something) you will note that the only high stress components that carry over from the SBC to the production 4.3 are the pistons and valve train components. The components we have the most trouble with are cranks and rods which dont carry over and our motors are low RPM torque motors which dont require huge cams or huge RPM so the advantages of the high end SBC valve train stuff is minimal IMO.
Up until a couple of months ago you could not get an even fire forged crank no matter how much money you had. Several ppl have placed orders with the likes of Cola, Hank the Crank, Scat, etc only to wait months on end with no crank shipped and they finally just cancelled the order. Just recently a syty vendor has came through with a forged even fire crank (if you have the ~$2500 to buy it). Eagle makes H beam rods for the even fire and they arent too bad on price and Oliver makes high dollar rods as well. Most guys I know of, myself included, went with the Eagles due to the high cost of the Oliver rods.
So, to sum it up yes you can find bullet proof performance parts for the 4.3 if you have the bucks to step up to the odd fire deal but by the time you spend the money to do it you could have built a SBC for half the price. If you do that then its just another S10 with a SBC stuffed in it and just like you guys most of us sytyers like to stick to the V6 stuff thats within reach of our budget as staying V6 is the "right" way to do it.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I know of some one that was putting a 311ci bowtie v-6 in a gn. I think they changed their minds and are putting it in a Syclone.
Dan @ DLS is really good with these motors.
You may want to call him.
Dan @ DLS is really good with these motors.
You may want to call him.
It was the preferred engine in bgn before they went to v8's thats because Buick was pulling out and GM needed something.
If you asked a team owner of the BGN series ARCA series or anything that could have a choice in the v6 that they could run in their GM car. It would be the BUICK not the chebby.
So sorry for interupting your thread. I do apologize.
