4.1 Birth

[tom j]

Yea, been to the track a lot. It runs very good. No slicks, not using the transbrake it will leave with a 1.85, and run 10.90 at 128-129. First, no cage. Second, no money to fix what it breaks. Go 9's? Who knows. I have a long list of parts that should get me there. But taking out the engine scares me to go try. I have spoken to Mike at FTS, and he thinks the block will not live. I have spoken to Merkel, and he thinks it will. Mike has been in game along time and has seen a lot of things. And every block is different. But they cost the same to replace. So I hate to say, untill I see it will most likely live, I will stay at this power level. Good luck and let me know how it goes. Thanks.

We are in the same boat, I plan on pushing it hard next year if I dont find a complete stage motor setup for a good price

 

[SGRIM]

Can't wait to hear the results Chris. I know of a similar set up with GN'1s that is being installed. Cant' wait to see how the 4.1 holds out...

 

[ChrisCairns]

BoostingBuick.....if you ran a 10.90 with a 1.86 60' and no slicks, that thing is going to fly if you ever really get on it. Your great times have showed the 4.1 has more strength than most would have given it.

And your friend Mike just may be right, but so might Jack. No one knows yet. How many people would have just laughed 5 years ago if someone had said the 109 block will be in the 8's.

TomJ...are you presently building a 4.1 or have one in a car?

Shawn.....it seems like lots of people are now building the allegedly weak 4.1. I think we'll get lots of reports in the near future.

 

[tom j]

BoostingBuick.....if you ran a 10.90 with a 1.86 60' and no slicks, that thing is going to fly if you ever really get on it. Your great times have showed the 4.1 has more strength than most would have given it.

And your friend Mike just may be right, but so might Jack. No one knows yet. How many people would have just laughed 5 years ago if someone had said the 109 block will be in the 8's.

TomJ...are you presently building a 4.1 or have one in a car?

Shawn.....it seems like lots of people are now building the allegedly weak 4.1. I think we'll get lots of reports in the near future.

I'm currently running one, 10.4 at 128, 24lbs of boost
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/232086-10sec-et-2-45gal.html

 

[raymon823]

Can't wait to hear the results Chris. I know of a similar set up with GN'1s that is being installed. Cant' wait to see how the 4.1 holds out...

I belive thats mine you're talking about SGRIM. Me and B are curios too on how its going to hold up.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Where did you get the solid roller Stage 2 cam, how much total lift is it going to give you?

There is a stage 2 intake on ebay with fuel rails and a 70mm upper on it, and 2 sets of stage 2 heads.

Odd, i was looking on ebay for stage 2 parts to learn more about this swap on a 109 block, and looky who has already done it! :smile:


How much hard block did you use?

BW

 

[ChrisCairns]

Where did you get the solid roller Stage 2 cam, how much total lift is it going to give you?

There is a stage 2 intake on ebay with fuel rails and a 70mm upper on it, and 2 sets of stage 2 heads.

Odd, i was looking on ebay for stage 2 parts to learn more about this swap on a 109 block, and looky who has already done it! :smile:


How much hard block did you use?

BW

Hey Brian,

All parts were bought from Dan Strezo...when you buy from Dan they're correct and top shelf in my opinion. I had some parts on hand.

Lobe lift is .361 and I have the T & D "H" rockers on the intake which is a 1.71 ratio, and "S" rockers on the exhaust. They're a 1.64 ratio. So getting out my handy dandy calculator it comes out to a lift of .617 Intake and .592 on the exhaust.

I had my machinist put in the hard block since he's had experience with it and I haven't, so not knowing the correct amount to buy, and not wanting him to run out half way through the job I went crazy and bought the bucket (gallon?) from Summit. He said he threw most of it out...lol.

I don't think you'd be able to put S2 heads on a 109 block since you can't bore it out to the necessary 4" bore for the valves and chambers in the S2 heads.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Doh, meant production 4.1 and typed 109.

Cant wait to hear what it makes hp wise, and if it stays together with all that you have done to it.

Any idea on what size turbo? 76 GTS ?

BW

 

[ChrisCairns]

Doh, meant production 4.1 and typed 109.

Cant wait to hear what it makes hp wise, and if it stays together with all that you have done to it.

Any idea on what size turbo? 76 GTS ?

BW

Something like that. I'm not certain yet since I'm old school and the new turbo nomenclature has left me behind. (Read "the old goat don't know schitt about new turbos") :biggrin:

Since we may not have a track next year I guess I'll be a dyno queen.

tom j...that great time puts you at the top of the 4.1 heap. Have you had any problems with the block?

And that means that the following have running or are building production 4.1's.........

tom j
boostinbuick
raymon 823
me
possibly Bryan (Sorry for mispelling your name earlier.)

Anyone else throwing their brain, time, money, and hopes into the 4.1 ring?

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Im not doing one in the near future, ive got a bunch of other stuff to take care of first.

I thought Shane G. the owner was doing one:biggrin:


BW

 

[ChrisCairns]

I thought Shane G. the owner was doing one:biggrin:


BW

Arrrrgggghhhh. Sorry SHANE for calling your Shawn. At the time I typed that I thought there was something wrong....but my thoughts were along the line that the spelling should have been Sean. I knew that was wrong so settled on Shawn.

(Thanks for the diplomatic reminder Bryan.)

So are you doing a 4.1 Shane?

 

[tom j]

No problems yet(fingers crossedd)
I 'll be running a Gt4276 turbo next year, we'll see what happens

 

[boostingbuick]

I have been very happy with this thing. Lets put it this way. I put good money into this thing, full floating stock rods, custom JE pistons-file fit rings, new cover and GN1's and full roller. I have a 109 block and was going to build a stroker for the future, but I would rather keep this if it lives. I would love to make 750 horse with it. Plus it spools my t70 very well with a tight convertor. If Tom J's lives, then I may get that 76 I want.

 

[tom j]

I guess I'm the ginny pig then!

 

[boostingbuick]

Yes you are. But monkey see, monkey do. Unless its shoveling the old parts off the ground.

 

[tom j]

I don't mind. How many 4.1 prod. are in the 10's et range that we no of. Are there any in the 9's or am I going to be that ginny pig too. What is the number one reason these blocks fail? Is it the high cylinder preasure or is the high horsepower. The reason I ask is my thinking is that it is the cylinder preasure not the horsepower. That is the reason I opted for the larger turbo and not more boost. Does this sound logical or am I totally wrong. I know the higher the cylinder preasure the more power, but isn't it true for volume. I'm just trying take an aproach that will make the motor last.

 

[boostingbuick]

Hey Tom, We need to let readers know our block set up so the info is good. I just wanted to know that I have stock caps, girdle, 10/10 crank and stock rods made full floating for the JE pistons. Not much more than going tens with a 109. But if we can make it to the ( well more like you! ) nines then maybe there will be more of us. I want to see a 10.60 pass on 93. Yet to leave on the brake. Good luck and wish I could risk more. I am still a family man.:biggrin:

 

[tom j]

Family man, I have 4 rugrats. Stock caps, girdle, uncut stock crank, bms rods, JE pistons .030, stock p&p heads, flat tappet cam.

What do you think of the pressure(boost) versus volume(larger turbo) to maybe make these blocks last. ANY THOUGHTS!

 

[boostingbuick]

Air is air. 28 psi is 28psi, is just how hot is it that matters. The cooler the air better. But I think a larger bore is better than a longer stroke. Althought my opinion is byist.

 

[tom j]

What I'm trying to ask is that say you have a small turbo at 25psi running a certain ET and it takes 20psi to run the same ET on a larger turbo. The 20 psi I would think would be easier on the deck of these engines were they are prone to crack. Just my thoughts.