2010 TSA @ B.G. show and race results...

N

NCTURBOS

Gettin' back in action!!
Staff member
Joined
May 26, 2001
Anyone have the 411 for both the concours show and play-by-play race results??


TIA,

K.
 
Clay Arnold won TSA.
Red Armstrong runnered up and I believe placed gold in the show.
Bill Thompson finished third and got gold in the car show.


Hope that helps, Kip
 
Kip said:
Clay Arnold won TSA.
Red Armstrong runnered up and I believe placed gold in the show.
Bill Thompson finished third and got gold in the car show.


Hope that helps, Kip
Click to expand...

Thanks Kip... Everytime I look at this class I like it more and more... So were there just (3) cars in the class?


K.
 
NCTURBOS said:
So were there just (3) cars in the class?


K.
Click to expand...


There were 5 car originally. Fifth car had to bow out for a couple reasons, powermaster failure, and wouldn't be able to meet the 13.20 qualifying on short notice(needed better tires and gas, we'll likely try again next year).

4th car got disqualled for a couple reasons if memory serves; grease zerks on suspension bushings, and vin on spid label didn't match dash vin (this one I understand the least!!!!, how can this possibly be a performance enhancement, and with these cars being so old, there's bound to be a lot of cars with "different" trunk lids from accidents)!! I think this vin and spid matching thing needs to be relaxed for next year.
 
Dave summed it up pretty good except that the 5th car was told to paint his bushing sleeves black and he would be allowed to race this year. He did this by leaving the track to go buy the paint then painting them at the track and made qaulifying passes that evening with the class. On Saturday morning they came back around and told him he was out.

Keith this reminds me of the situation a few years in TSS. This year TSS had one person in it, I hope TSA does not go the same way. John spent large to enter the class and drove it all the way from Wisconsin while leaving his other Turbo Buick home. Wonder what car he will bring next year. BTW his car with the same bushings and trunk label problem passed tech at the 2009 Nats.


Take care, Kip
 
Kip said:
Dave summed it up pretty good except that the 5th car was told to paint his bushing sleeves black and he would be allowed to race this year. He did this by leaving the track to go buy the paint then painting them at the track and made qaulifying passes that evening with the class. On Saturday morning they came back around and told him he was out.

Keith this reminds me of the situation a few years in TSS. This year TSS had one person in it, I hope TSA does not go the same way. John spent large to enter the class and drove it all the way from Wisconsin while leaving his other Turbo Buick home. Wonder what car he will bring next year. BTW his car with the same bushings and trunk label problem passed tech at the 2009 Nats.


Take care, Kip
Click to expand...

One would hope, but history has a way of repeating itself when those in charge don't learn a thing from it.
 
Tsa

is it true a scanmaster could be used...

also, the driver were not allowed to exit the car until inspected by the Colonel...

when money is a factor, the fun is slightly a headache...

who makes and who breaks the rules, well not break - but push the limits...

it should be no drag radials... turbo stock appearing... except whatever it takes to win... sounds a little biased

The best thing happened that Red did NOT win or else!!!!

Red Armstrong dominates the Turbo Regal classes.... when he enters
Red is the turbo regal intimidator....

Best ET for Red in TSA 11.20...

so many options to bend the rules... how and what did each guy do with his car to do what it did and meet the rules...

Would have been nice to see Big Daddy with his car.... match grudge race
 
R/T & 60' is what beat Red up to 1/8 mile, then Red came on strong

I mentioned to Red that evening, maybe a CARTON of smokes should have been the bet... at the finish line.... lol

Jane probably made Red stop at store so she could buy him
another bottle of NO DOSE, falling a sleep at the starting line...

Maybe he looked down and when he looked up - the light was green, oops
just enuff to win and Red scored gold in concours too


Clay
R/T: .347
60': 1.717
330: 4.821
1/8: 7.455
MPH: 93.62
1/4: 11.671
MPH: 116.03

Red
R/T: .522
60': 1.898
330: 5.021
1/8: 7.567
MPH: 96.85
1/4: 11.620
MPH: 121.65
 
GNregistry said:
is it true a scanmaster could be used...

also, the driver were not allowed to exit the car until inspected by the Colonel...
Click to expand...

and vin on spid label didn't match dash vin (this one I understand the least!!!!, how can this possibly be a performance enhancement, and with these cars being so old, there's bound to be a lot of cars with "different" trunk lids from accidents)!! I think this vin and spid matching thing needs to be relaxed for next year.
Click to expand...


It sounded like from the introduction post sometime back that the goal was to disqualify cars and that's from an outsider looking in.
 
TSA BG Wrap Up Info.

The TSA events at Bowling Green last week were exciting and informative. The weather was perfect and the racing was full of suspense. There were five cars that entered TSA competition. After judging the vehicles Friday afternoon, two vehicles were determined to be in violation of TSA Rules. The first violation was due to an improperly modified elbow in the air intake system just after the airbox. This disqualified that car. The driver said that he would correct the violation within the hour by procuring the part from a nearby vendor. He did, and returned, was reinspected and his car was then certified. The second car that was disqualified was due to two discrepancies:…1st, non matching VIN #s on the windshield and trunk SPI label, and 2nd, non-stock bushings on the rear upper and lower control arms. The bushings had zerk fittings with alum sleeves. Regals did not come that way from the GM factory. After much thought about this Friday night, I determined that both issues were grounds for dis- qualification, and I informed the driver at the first opportunity Saturday morning. While it is true that these cars are over 20 years old and many drivers are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th or more owners, that does not alter the rules. Also true is the case where a car has been in an accident and a trunk was replaced from another vehicle. A careful owner would have had the body shop in question transfer the SPI Label or take a close up photo as documentation. I informed the owner that he could have CARFAX do a history search, and try to see if information existed where the vehicle was serviced. This requires time and effort, but could produce results. A letter from a professional body shop and copies of bills and estimates would go a long way toward justifying a pass in this example. And I don't mean a mickey mouse note written in pencil. The particular driver in this case understood that in fairness to other owners I could therefore not certify his vehicle as it was configured. Any owner unsure of some issue on his vehicle can observe a concours certified one as a start. As an original owner of a vehicle off of the dealers new car lot, I know what is stock appearing. Others do also. ….. AS a result of this activity, four cars were left to race. Then one car, a restored GNX could not run due to a powermaster malfunction. Despite the best efforts to remedy the problem, it could not be fixed, and he was therefore unable to qualify. That left three cars to compete in TSA. All remaining contestants agreed to stay in their vehicles after passing through the traps and going directly to the scales, after which I reinspected the vehicle for any inappropriate mods. All cooperated in doing so, and I stationed myself at the scales where I could observe them leaving the track, weighing, and then being reinspected. The overall winner was Clay Arnold, at 11.671. Congratulations!!! Next was Red Armstrong with 11.620, and third was Bill Thompson with a 12.076. Great racing!! Since Red Armstrong and Bill Thompson won Gold ratings in the concours, they will receive Richard Clark's special award for TSA Class as well.

I had a great time at BG, met many people and felt very privileged to be a part of the TSA event. The sportsmanship displayed by so many was an inspiration. If anyone has any comments, feel free to ask. Racing can be fun. Lets keep it that way.
 
The Colonel said:
The second car that was disqualified was due to two discrepancies:…1st, non matching VIN #s on the windshield and trunk SPI label, While it is true that these cars are over 20 years old and many drivers are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th or more owners, that does not alter the rules. Also true is the case where a car has been in an accident and a trunk was replaced from another vehicle. A careful owner would have had the body shop in question transfer the SPI Label or take a close up photo as documentation. I informed the owner that he could have CARFAX do a history search, and try to see if information existed where the vehicle was serviced. This requires time and effort, but could produce results. A letter from a professional body shop and copies of bills and estimates would go a long way toward justifying a pass in this example. And I don't mean a mickey mouse note written in pencil.
Click to expand...

I understand that the rules are the rules.... but is this rule really in the best intrest of the class? Seems something like this could really hurt the car count.
I could see where this would count against you in the show, but does this really offer any performance advantage? Just seems to me it's not in the spirit of racing.
:cool:
 
Can the trunk label be duplicated or reproduced?

A friend of mine is looking at a T-Type & the trunk tag
listing the options is missing.

If being supplied with the car's vin number can you
or do you know anyone who might be able to get this
info ?
 
The Colonel said:
While it is true that these cars are over 20 years old and many drivers are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th or more owners, that does not alter the rules. Also true is the case where a car has been in an accident and a trunk was replaced from another vehicle. A careful owner would have had the body shop in question transfer the SPI Label or take a close up photo as documentation. I informed the owner that he could have CARFAX do a history search, and try to see if information existed where the vehicle was serviced. This requires time and effort, but could produce results. A letter from a professional body shop and copies of bills and estimates would go a long way toward justifying a pass in this example. And I don't mean a mickey mouse note written in pencil.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying Colonel, but I do not agree. There are reasons why a decklid could have been replaced that would not show up anywhere, not carfax, or anything else. For instance, I bought a fairly low mileage (fairly low being 69,000, still the lowest mileage vehicle I have ever bought) T-type many years ago, BUT it was a northern car that had some rust. One of the things that had been replaced for rust was the decklid. That will not show on a carfax at all, for that matter carfax hasn't been around as long as the cars have been, if it was wrecked when fairly new that most likely won't show up either. or if it got hit and the owner fixed it out of his pocket. And as to transferring the tag, not everyone would even notice it was gone until this class came along. The VIN proves the car is a real turbo car. If the trunk label was commercially available then I would feel differently. For example aftermarket exhaust is allowed because stock exhaust is no longer available. There are many cars out there where the history of the car is unknown, no matter how many carfaxs you run on them.

To be totally honest I don't even think it should matter if it's a factory turbo car or not. If the car appears to be a stock turbo regal and makes weight then what does it matter what the VIN says?? Now of course to do the car show it would matter, but purely in the race portion I don't think it should.

I really think this is a good class and I really appreciate all that Richard does and is doing for the Turbo Regal community, just wanted to voice my thoughts on the subject so that maybe in the future some things can be changed so that more people can run this class. For instance the more I am around it, the more interested I am, but when I see people not getting to participate for things that do not offer a performance advantage at all it's a bit of a turn off.
 
I learned to never give up

The Colonel said:
….. AS a result of this activity, four cars were left to race. Then one car, a restored GNX could not run due to a powermaster malfunction. Despite the best efforts to remedy the problem, it could not be fixed, and he was therefore unable to qualify. That left three cars to compete in TSA.
Click to expand...

I was the GNX that The Colonel is referring to.

First let me say that the racers in this class definitely went "fast with class". I had help with getting shoe polish for the glass, swapped stories of earlier nats, and had offers of help by providing empty cans to empty my pump gas, etc etc. It was as if all the drivers truly wanted as many cars as possible in the class. Either that or everyone wanted to embarrass a GNX:smile:

Prior to arriving at the nats, I had no intention to run TSA. What attracted me was the payout for first thru FOURTH place. The opportunity to take home a win and some scratch was appealing. As I pulled up to tech I was hoping for a low car count.

I hadn't read the rules and didn't know about the 13.20 or quicker mandatory qualifying pass. My car had a full tank of pump gas, Michelin street tires that spin at heavy tip in, a real catalytic converter with brick in place, and the wastegate setting was off. The car and I weighed in at 3770lbs (I weigh ~200). Several funny comments were made as I waddled off the scales. After which we headed toward the staging lanes.

As I was in line for the car show award parade lap, the dreaded brake light illuminated. Meanwhile the other four TSA racers ran their qualifying laps, the slowest was a 12.4 which I knew there was no way I could get close to that.

So there I sat with a powermaster problem, no race gas, and street tires. I did make a small attempt to find a set of drag radials, but according to the rules the front and rear wheel styles had to match. During my short search I didn't uncover any GNX wheels with drag radials. I mentally threw in the towel and gave up hope of a fourth place finish and $1,000.

On Saturday I stopped by Bill Thompson's trailer and found out about car #4 being disqualified the night before. Bill also showed me a set of GNX wheels with drag radials for sale sitting two trailers away. I could have gotten my hands on a PM switch which would have probably allowed the brakes to work. However, at that point it was too late to qualify. Ugggh! Lesson learned, never give up.

TSA is an exciting class to watch. The times that these stock appearing cars are turning amaze me.
 
Colonel, it was a pleasure to meet you. I feel you did a great job during the event. RC put out the rules and you enforced them to the letter, I know that crawling under and around cars is not easy, or fun for that matter. RC, the Colonel and 1 other fellow that his name escapes me left no stone unturned during tech.

I feel that TSA tech was very thorough and needed although it was time consuming. For the first year of this style tech it went fairly well, at first it was trying on some but later we all agreed that it was a good thing. Even though I was not able to participate in the awards for the car show as well as another racer, the improvement with tech over last year was in the best intrest.

I was disappointed to hear about John's Turbo T being disqualified. He was crushed to say the least. After driving it from Wisconsin, changing tires and tuning it, although he did get his best times and was heading in the right direction. He goes thru tech, removes the zerk fittings, does some painting underneath to meet the rule on control arms, but ultimately could not do anything about the spid label. Unfortunately the rules are the rules and we now know they will be enforced. Sorry John:frown:

John Norton, (GNX 405) WOW what a beautiful car, I am still stunned with the quality and workmanship that was performed on you car. It was a pleasure to meet and talk to you and wish that you could have came by earlier so we could have got you hooked up on tires and fuel, I would have loved to see how it would run along with many others. But if you can't stop at the end of the track........

I would also like to congratulate Clay Arnold on another first place win in TSA and Red Armstrong for his second place win (someone wake Red up) and Gold in the concours show.

Thanks
Bill
 
the comments about this class are interesting---------while everyone is welcome to their opinions they are also free to sponsor a class and provide payout at any time--------perhaps a TSAWTL (turbo stock appearing without trunk label) could be in order--------of course the label has nothing to do with performance but it has everything to do with car value and its pointless to argue otherwise---------lots of things tend to deviate from their original intent--------next tuesday we are going to go to the polls and vote about issues regarding a country where we have clearly deviated from original intent of individual freedom, small govt and self accountability--------i do not intend to see TSA deviate from my original intent--------if it does someone else is welcome to take it over, sponsor it and turn it into whatever they want--------Joe will attest that I felt really bad about someone driving all the way from wisconsin only to be disqualified---------before the event i told joe it is not the intent to disqualify anyone------- but when the rules state clearly in the first few lines the the vin and the trunk label must match why would anyone drive so far when the rules could not be clearer???------let me once again state the intent of the class----------i am a collector of TR's--------actually GN's to be exact---------even if i have no intent of ever selling a single car from my collection i still like to see when a nice example of a GN sells for twice its original sticker price---------i also view with interest watching collector cars privately or at auction sell for huge amounts---------older muscle cars selling for high 6 figures is impressive to say the least--------one thing you can bet on is that when those cars do bring that kind of money they are really fine examples of the breed--------perfect condition, numbers matching concours quality cars---------it is this level of car that the TSA class is aimed at--------my hope is that with a little incentive we will encourage the development of techniques that will enable a TSA legal car to eventually run in the 10's--------think about how much we modify (read: hurt the value) of our cars just to make them run a little faster--------look at the THS class--------why are there so many cars in THS?-------it's simple------because few GN owners are content to leave their cars stock and are willing to spend large amounts of money to run faster but not quite willing to step up and spend what it takes to be competitive in TSO/TSM etc---------a ten second street car is impressive------unfortunately in order to have one you have to start with a stock car and spend lots of money on it and the more you spend the less its worth--------i believe given the incentive we will eventually develop recipes that will take our TSA cars into the 10's without devaluing them---------presently Red has run a best of 11:09 --------a few more years and we just might all be able to have a stock appearing car that runs 10's----------is a trunk label necessary??-------of course not but when that day comes i want these cars to be pristine examples of the breed---------when i first suggested the idea of doubling the purse if the car won concours everyone told me it couldn't (or wouldn't) be done-------no one had ever heard of racing a concours car-------well its been done and i believe we will eventually see a 10 second regal gold concours winner---------and if you don't think that will get some press and increase the status and value of our cars you are badly mistaken----------if i keep doubling the purse each year i think we will see it within another two years...................RC




-a ten second car that appears stock is REALLY impressive
 
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