1987 pro-touring grand national, from the ground up

[Reggie West]

TCI wants $6000 for the trans, control box and shifter. I am not sure if that includes a converter in the deal.

I sure hope it does.

Dsapper I know the control box works as a standalone unit. What will you use to control the motor?

I know the XFI can control both but it requires a special box from them to make it work.

Please keep us posted on results.

 

[dsapper]

TCI wants $6000 for the trans, control box and shifter. I am not sure if that includes a converter in the deal.

I sure hope it does.

Dsapper I know the control box works as a standalone unit. What will you use to control the motor?

I know the XFI can control both but it requires a special box from them to make it work.

Please keep us posted on results.

It does not include a converter, I'm getting one from ptc. The converter is expensive because you need some kind of an adapter. You also need a new crossmember and adapter plate. If you don't want to use an adapter plate you can get the correct bellhousing from TCI for the 6x but its almost 800 more, insantity.

I'm staying stock for the ecu with a turbo tweak chip. I'm going for simple and reliable, nothing insane. It has VSS so the stock ecu will be fine.

 

[RISEABOVE]

This is A bad ass build up. Definitely subscribing. Good job and thanks for sharing with all of us.

 

[motorhead]

I'm staying stock for the ecu with a turbo tweak chip. I'm going for simple and reliable, nothing insane. It has VSS so the stock ecu will be fine.

Given that it doesn't appear that your shop isn't overly familiar with G-bodies, and more specifically the ins and outs of the Turbo Buick, I am curious if they put 2 and 2 together and realized that by installing the modified 4L80E (or 6X as TCI calls it) and keeping the stock ECM that you will have to figure out the need for an input from the transmission (or supplemental switch) to the ECM. This is required to indicate that the transmission is in 3rd or 4th gear per the stock 200-4R's valvebody circuitry. The reason I bring this up is that your ECM will keep the car in its low gear parameters unless the high gear circuits are closed, which will affect timing and fuel... and ultimately power and driveability.

Out of sheer Sunday morning boredom I skimmed through the installation instructions for the 6X and didn't see any OUTPUT wires. The closest I saw was "Pin D" on the manual shift connector, however the instructions aren't very clear.

Here's how I solved it (the theory will be applicable, but you'll need your own solution): TH400 (Reverse Pattern) 3rd/4th Gear ECM Switch - TurboBuicks.com

If this is news to you please make the check out to: that a$$hole who has been bugging me. :biggrin: If it isn't, I think we'd all like to know how your shop is going to account for this.

PS. a TCC signal to the ECM would be handy too; unless it is PWM because it might just look like a flicker.

 

[dsapper]

Not sure honestly. I talked to a guy at TCI that put the 6x in his turbo buick. On the new version of the 6x it has a vss output. According to him that's all it takes. Guess we shall see. I can always switch To something else if stock doesn't work I guess

 

[Scott Atk]

Eric can do a chip without 3/4 gear input. That's how mine is. I believe its based on MPH. Excellent point on the modern PWM TCC, not sure about that one.

 

[dsapper]

I emailed Eric and have yet to hear back from him.

So Scott Atk is putting my motor together as we speak, its great having someone around that has forgotten more than I know about grand nationals! The motor looks great so far, waiting on different push rods but its going together fast!

The man himself at work, thanks again Scott!

 

[dsapper]

Given that it doesn't appear that your shop isn't overly familiar with G-bodies, and more specifically the ins and outs of the Turbo Buick, I am curious if they put 2 and 2 together and realized that by installing the modified 4L80E (or 6X as TCI calls it) and keeping the stock ECM that you will have to figure out the need for an input from the transmission (or supplemental switch) to the ECM. This is required to indicate that the transmission is in 3rd or 4th gear per the stock 200-4R's valvebody circuitry. The reason I bring this up is that your ECM will keep the car in its low gear parameters unless the high gear circuits are closed, which will affect timing and fuel... and ultimately power and driveability.

Out of sheer Sunday morning boredom I skimmed through the installation instructions for the 6X and didn't see any OUTPUT wires. The closest I saw was "Pin D" on the manual shift connector, however the instructions aren't very clear.

Here's how I solved it (the theory will be applicable, but you'll need your own solution): TH400 (Reverse Pattern) 3rd/4th Gear ECM Switch - TurboBuicks.com

If this is news to you please make the check out to: that a$$hole who has been bugging me. :biggrin: If it isn't, I think we'd all like to know how your shop is going to account for this.

PS. a TCC signal to the ECM would be handy too; unless it is PWM because it might just look like a flicker.

I just heard back from Eric at TurboTweak and his chips only use MPH for the 3rd 4th gear input to the ECM so its a non-issue with the TurboTweak chip, thanks for pointing it out though.

 

[motorhead]

I just heard back from Eric at TurboTweak and his chips only use MPH for the 3rd 4th gear input to the ECM so its a non-issue with the TurboTweak chip, thanks for pointing it out though.

No worries... just make sure the PPM off your VSS are correct and you'll be good to go.

 

[dsapper]

No worries... just make sure the PPM off your VSS are correct and you'll be good to go.

I called TCI and they said the vss is correct and compatible, hopefully it will be fairly painless hooking this up

 

[coach]

I just added this Flaming River D wheel to my interior. I love the black and silver. Matches the seats perfectly.

Coach

 

[dsapper]

quick question, which spark plugs should I get?

 

[dsapper]

still need spark plug advice lol...

Swung by the shop to check out scotts work and he made some progress. We are waiting on a few misc parts but we have plenty of time with the transmission not being here yet. The alternator has a silver fan going on it and the black pulley from rjc racing as well

 

[IrvJr]

Looking bad ass. That steering wheel has me itching to get a new one. I think the two tone Jet would look good in my WH1.

 

[DailyDrifter]

Get the NGK UR55.


Good looking build, should be a nice car when your done.

 

[Scott Atk]

Autolite 103

 

[ChanceG]

subscribed

 

[Pittsburghkid]

Where'd all the pics go?

 

[dsapper]

Where'd all the pics go?

No idea, I've used uploadit.org for years (7+) to host all my pictures etc and they have been down for 2 days. If it doesn't come back up I'll rebuild the thread... sucks I have hundreds of pictures on there I don't think I have backup's of. Not to happy with that



BUT on a positive note I swung by the shop today and they were almost done with the monumental task of making the watts-link and sphoon pro-touring swaybar work.

First off I hate talking crap about anyone but I'm just fed up. Marcus at SC&C has been great to deal with until this. He assured me that this specific rear end, sway bar, and watts-link would work together with very very minor issues, BULL**** (mind you I ordered all of it from him at the exact same time). The 9" rear doesn't have enough room for anything to mount and all the brackets are way to small for the massive and tapered ford 9". He still swore up and down it fit on the phone but couldn't explain how any more than "it just does". Supposedly having 2 cars set up this way at his shop I asked for pictures of the rears so we can see how they mounted it, a promise to do so followed by no pictures and no more returned calls. So we called up Mr. Fays at Fays32, who actually makes the watts-link... He informed me that the 9" can't be done and especially not with a swaybar.... good times. He actually knew of my car through Marcus but said he was never told about the ford 9". So, lots more work for everyone involved to make the impossible, possible. Thankfully he happens to be a great guy and walked the shop through the correct angles and measurements to make it correct, and it is dead on.

And here is how it is done...

So they remade the watts-link rear end mounts. You can't just weld them to it because there has to be adjustment built into it. So they took 4" id 1/4" dom tubing and made the outside of the brackets. But the nodular rear only has a few inches of that, they also made a sleeve and welded it to the bracket of 3.5" dom for the other half that was available. There was also notching of the mounts for the axle vent tube and modifications to clear the spring mounts since they were so close. Also, there is gussets, welds etc on the rear end. So they had to notch and build up weld in various places to make it fit and clamp correctly. You will notice that the driver side of the watts-link bracket is facing down. That is the correct way, the angles of the cross shafts have to match exactly and the "propeller" in the center has to be at specific angles as well. They adjust one side of the watts-link to be the correct angle matching the passenger side. They also have to be the exact same length after adjustment.... yeah pain in the ass

That left the pro-touring sway bar mounts. They actually sliced the mount in half and mounted half on either side of the bracket(after quite a bit of welding and grinding), so its whole when the bracket is on the rear end. Simple and very effective. There is still some welding, and grinding, boxing and powdercoat to do but this is basically how it will look.

And here are the pictures (I was just holding up the sway bar end-link in one picture)

 

[dsapper]

also, scott atk finished up most of the work on the motor. We are stuck till I get new header bolts in and a few misc parts, but here she is.... looks great!