15% ethanol

[Tom Walker]

On the news tonite, EPA got legislation passed to up the ethanol content to 15%. Said it won't affect cars made in the last 10 yrs. What's everyones opinion on how this is gonna affect us and can we adjust for it?

 

[novaderrik]

i say that you won't even notice it. this comes from driving with E10 gas for the 20 years i've been driving, and putting E85 in my Regal since i got it in '04. if your car is modified beyond the stock parameters (more boost, bigger injectors, exhaust upgrades, etc- you know, normal stuff), then you might want to monitor things and adjust accordingly.
but your gas tank won't rust out and your fuel lines won't disintegrate, if that's what you are worried about.

 

[Just a Six??]

Sunoco uses 5%-10% here & have for years. Reg is 5% 94 is 10% & I have had no issues from it. Thats all I use is the 94.

 

[bison]

I'd rather pay extra and get a little less energy than support OPEC. It will be up to 15%. so it could be from 0-15%. you never really know what your getting. Probably 4% loss in mpg at stoic vs. no alcohol or other co-solvents. So if you run ****ty pump gas you will notice nothing since your only giving up about another 1.5% at most. So if you spent $4000 annually on fuel you will now spend about $4060. Some ball washers on this forum will still complain about it though. If you own one of these cars fuel economy shouldnt be much of a concern. If it is sell your tr and go buy a prius.

 

[larrym]

Up here in Canada I strictly use 94 that contains up to 15% and find it works better than the chevron 94 with "tecron"
My opinion is I'm not going to see as much water in my tank with it as I have had some bad 94 without the alcohol in it.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

On the news tonite, EPA got legislation passed to up the ethanol content to 15%. Said it won't affect cars made in the last 10 yrs. What's everyones opinion on how this is gonna affect us and can we adjust for it?

E15 will not affect our cars at all. It is simply another attempt at politicians to give more kickbacks to ethanol producers in the form of tax subsidies. This stuff serves to economic purpose nor evironmental purposes as well. This about as useless as E85 is to the driving public. Why pay for this crap only to get less energy in the form of MPG. There will not be any price savings either. I personally will never by this crap unless it is the only option at the pump. My 2 cents Brad

 

[turbofrank]

I doubt there will be any savings now they can justify the increase in gas price added more ethanol.

 

[87GNSteve]

You will see an increase in food prices.

 

[Bruce Urie]

You will see an increase in food prices.

Here in Virginia, we already are. It's outrageous! Shirl and I were shocked to see a 5 lb bag of flour at $4.60, as was a 5lb bag of sugar. Let alone all the other stuff. Our grocery bill is growing higher (in just a few months) for the same stuff we've been buying for years.

My Coors beer, 24 cans, went from $11.99 a case to $16.99 a case (and for a limited time) in less than 6 months. Seems I'll be drinking a lot of water this year.

My favorite...hamburger is now$3.99 lb....:frown:

Higher fuel prices equals higher food prices, due to increase in higer fuel prices in shipping.

All this ethanol equates higher corn product prices. You can't win.

Wonderful.

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[MNcarbturbo]

High corn prices dont have that much to do with high food prices. Most of the edible form of the corn (what doesnt go out the back of a fat holstein) is what is a by product of the distilation process. If you've ever spent any time around a holstein, you'd see how much corn goes throgh undigested. The distillers grain (byproduct) is much more digestible and is mixed with less a filler so to say.

So instead of pushing $5 of corn into one end and having $1.50 come out, you put $5 corn into a ethanol plant, get $6 of ethanol from same amount of corn, then send dry distillers grain to farmer, and put $2.50 equivilent of corn into steer, and get 10 cents out the other end of the steer in the undigested form. There is less waste and you loose very little nutrients out of the ethanol process compared to feeding the corn directly to the steer.

And a larger precentage of corn is fed to livestock than turned into cornflakes.

And crop prices being higher means that farmers can turn a little bit more profit, and buy more modern machinery, which is more Eco-friendly. Which makes the people that work at John Deere and CNH work more, which creates a larger demand for steel, and makes the workers at the plant make a bit more, and so down the line.

Either way, sombody makes money off it, and some people loose money. Its going to happen that way regardless of E15 or none.

Personally this "Ethanol is Evil" because it directly raises food prices is really not true. In the end, more of the corn is used in Ethanol then if it goes only into livestock.

 

[novaderrik]

High corn prices dont have that much to do with high food prices. Most of the edible form of the corn (what doesnt go out the back of a fat holstein) is what is a by product of the distilation process. If you've ever spent any time around a holstein, you'd see how much corn goes throgh undigested. The distillers grain (byproduct) is much more digestible and is mixed with less a filler so to say.

So instead of pushing $5 of corn into one end and having $1.50 come out, you put $5 corn into a ethanol plant, get $6 of ethanol from same amount of corn, then send dry distillers grain to farmer, and put $2.50 equivilent of corn into steer, and get 10 cents out the other end of the steer in the undigested form. There is less waste and you loose very little nutrients out of the ethanol process compared to feeding the corn directly to the steer.

And a larger precentage of corn is fed to livestock than turned into cornflakes.

And crop prices being higher means that farmers can turn a little bit more profit, and buy more modern machinery, which is more Eco-friendly. Which makes the people that work at John Deere and CNH work more, which creates a larger demand for steel, and makes the workers at the plant make a bit more, and so down the line.

Either way, sombody makes money off it, and some people loose money. Its going to happen that way regardless of E15 or none.

Personally this "Ethanol is Evil" because it directly raises food prices is really not true. In the end, more of the corn is used in Ethanol then if it goes only into livestock.

get out of here with your inconvenient facts.. the internet is no place for such things.

 

[SHADOWII]

we don't need...

to rely on OPEC. Two years ago when all this nonsence started w/ the "going green crowd" the break even point for a barrel of oil was $60.00 a barrel. meaning it was cheaper to purchase than for us to drill. We are way past that w/$90.00 a barrel now. With the moritorium on oil drilling, foreign companies pulling out of the gulf, china drilling off of cuba, and drilling of Brazil. the Obamanation from the w/house hires a ceo from GE, a company that lives off of government contracts and is trying to sell the idea of wind generators,solar panels, etc. that GE manufactures, that the german government is moving away from due to the maintenance costs are higher than the power produced.There is also the big idea of solar panels, which was to bring jobs, only to lose $80 million in the last 3 quarters, going out of business and sending 30k jobs over to china. Need I say more?
Sorry for venting.:redface:

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

to rely on OPEC. Two years ago when all this nonsence started w/ the "going green crowd" the break even point for a barrel of oil was $60.00 a barrel. meaning it was cheaper to purchase than for us to drill. We are way past that w/$90.00 a barrel now. With the moritorium on oil drilling, foreign companies pulling out of the gulf, china drilling off of cuba, and drilling of Brazil. the Obamanation from the w/house hires a ceo from GE, a company that lives off of government contracts and is trying to sell the idea of wind generators,solar panels, etc. that GE manufactures, that the german government is moving away from due to the maintenance costs are higher than the power produced.There is also the big idea of solar panels, which was to bring jobs, only to lose $80 million in the last 3 quarters, going out of business and sending 30k jobs over to china. Need I say more?
Sorry for venting.:redface:

Very well spoken I may say. The little secret is that almost none of our oil imports come from the middle east. It is Mexico, Canada, US, Venezuela and some from Nigeria. Also, wasn't that ahole from GE convicted by the SEC for securities fraud? Brad

 

[jdpolzin]

High corn prices dont have that much to do with high food prices. Most of the edible form of the corn (what doesnt go out the back of a fat holstein) is what is a by product of the distilation process. If you've ever spent any time around a holstein, you'd see how much corn goes throgh undigested. The distillers grain (byproduct) is much more digestible and is mixed with less a filler so to say.

So instead of pushing $5 of corn into one end and having $1.50 come out, you put $5 corn into a ethanol plant, get $6 of ethanol from same amount of corn, then send dry distillers grain to farmer, and put $2.50 equivilent of corn into steer, and get 10 cents out the other end of the steer in the undigested form. There is less waste and you loose very little nutrients out of the ethanol process compared to feeding the corn directly to the steer.

And a larger precentage of corn is fed to livestock than turned into cornflakes.

And crop prices being higher means that farmers can turn a little bit more profit, and buy more modern machinery, which is more Eco-friendly. Which makes the people that work at John Deere and CNH work more, which creates a larger demand for steel, and makes the workers at the plant make a bit more, and so down the line.

Either way, sombody makes money off it, and some people loose money. Its going to happen that way regardless of E15 or none.

Personally this "Ethanol is Evil" because it directly raises food prices is really not true. In the end, more of the corn is used in Ethanol then if it goes only into livestock.

Couldnt have said it any better myself. Coming from a life long dairy family, working for many different dairy farmers, and having many family mmbers, including my fiance working at John Deere, I personally cant believe how blind people are on crop usage. More people would rather get political and mad than research the facts.

 

[LM1999]

Wish we had this problem. Come check out the prices of stuff North of the Border. A case of decent beer (including coors lite) is around $40 a case of 24. Gas is $1.15 / litre (3.67L =1 US Gal). Large pack of cigarettes is $10. 15% sales tax on most things and crazy income tax all thanks to our socialist government. Here is the best part, our dollar is now at par with the US. WTF gives?

 

[novaderrik]

Wish we had this problem. Come check out the prices of stuff North of the Border. A case of decent beer (including coors lite) is around $40 a case of 24. Gas is $1.15 / litre (3.67L =1 US Gal). Large pack of cigarettes is $10. 15% sales tax on most things and crazy income tax all thanks to our socialist government. Here is the best part, our dollar is now at par with the US. WTF gives?

gotta pay for all that "free" healthcare somehow.

 

[LM1999]

Yeah "free" healthcare. Like everything else you get what you pay for. Our healthcare is not what it was. Long wait times and unless your have additional insurance (employer or private) medication is very expensive. My wife is self employed and pays $2500 / yr for an annual screening and counseltations (no health issues) in order to pay less insurance premiums. Unless you have a good doctor, your treated like cattle.

 

[ThikStik]

My everyday road warrior 94 regal gs na 3.8 informed me that straight gas is better. I had filled up at a Pure station and had noticed better running/mpg. Like same area where the tcc would unlock, it had more power and could keep tcc engaged. i went back to the station asked and she said it is ethanol free, she said yes. It is hurting rubber and it makes power valves become richer as it hardesn them. How do carb cars have 30 +year old tank hoses, and once theyre changed they have to be rr every 3-4 years. What about boats. What about small engines. Another thing, it produces less power than is expended to make it. One thing to know too, the EPA is always looking for more "business". Simply tightening the air quality standards every 3 years cant be their only weapon. So ethanol is dirty as it produces alot of VOC's in production...that gives the EPA growth.
As we all know miles driven are up hugely all the time (you cant absorb the rest of the world without more cars on the road!), while pollution has vastly decreased. Old folks know what real dirty air was like.

 

[87GNSteve]

All these "EXPERTS" fail to note that when farms switch to more profitable corn for fuel and abandon food crops that's where higher food prices come in.
That's for you people that never set foot on Wall Street.

 

[ThikStik]

Shaddow, Thats Jefferey Imelt the douche ceo of GE. MSNBC is owned by GE thats why its a leftist propaganda group.
Yep, no country ever burned its own food supply with a good result.