Got a carb turbo torn apart and
- Thread starter MNcarbturbo
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MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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- Mar 9, 2009
Are the lifters off TA performance GM ones? I cant seem to find actual GM lifters. Arent the GM lifters the same as the Delphi ones?
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
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- Mar 17, 2008
all modern lifters are made by 3 companys now. and they ALL suck.
when you source out the original GM lifters in the classifieds or from somewhere, your geting the lifters that were made by Johnson or Eaton from the days gone past. they were a better quality lifter.
there only major drawback, was the rate at which they pumped up... usually way too fast at hi RPM, but there alot quieter than aftermarkets.
A.j.
when you source out the original GM lifters in the classifieds or from somewhere, your geting the lifters that were made by Johnson or Eaton from the days gone past. they were a better quality lifter.
there only major drawback, was the rate at which they pumped up... usually way too fast at hi RPM, but there alot quieter than aftermarkets.
A.j.
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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- Mar 9, 2009
So if nobody makes a real good lifter anymore it doesnt matter who I get them from, they are going to suck. I guess Ill just get the one off Ebay with lifters, probably easier than sourcing out seperate lifters if they are all kinda junk.
dr_frankenstein
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
when it comes to flat tappets, yea, this is an unfortunate problem.
I would suggest trying to find some NOS GM lifters. there your best bet aganst cam failure.
I use them myself and then redrill the foot and the metering hole to my specs.
A.j.
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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- Mar 9, 2009
Only problem is now this is the only thing that works.
Took my 80 turbo apart that I had got when I bought the motor. It burned copious amounts of oil. Put on a better 80 turbo from AJ, and discovered why the turbo was so loose. The berings are cooked, and the shaft has score marks around it. Essentialy the shaft and housing are shot. But I can still mock it up. Machined the lip out on my 80 backing plate to accept my 87 wheel. Oddly enough, the 87 backing plate has a lip on it the same diameter as the 80 inducer. So all I had to do was machine the lip on backing plate .20" and it fits great. My ultimate plan was just to use the 80 turbo exducer, center section, and exhaust housing with a 87 inducer and 80 housing machined out. But because the turbo is cooked, im just going to get a 83 exducer and housing and get another center section. Makes sense to do it right once then decide its too laggy after I put on the new inducer. Gotta see if I can get the inducer housing on a CNC lathe too.
And my edel 204/214 cam is in the mail, and I have all the gaskets to do the cam swap. Need to get a set of heads too to port and machine down so I can run Felpro 1000's
FlintBuick4Life
Active Member
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- Aug 26, 2009
Very nice:biggrin:
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
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- May 4, 2005
what about the intake? Are you gonna clean the intake and the plenum up?
Sorry if this is a stupid question. Why are you guys using stock 87 turbo parts to build turbos? What exactly is getting changed? Aren't the stock carb turbos and stock 87 turbos both low 12 capable?
Sorry if this is a stupid question. Why are you guys using stock 87 turbo parts to build turbos? What exactly is getting changed? Aren't the stock carb turbos and stock 87 turbos both low 12 capable?
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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- Mar 9, 2009
My plenum is already cleaned up. Ported out and better transitions. The intake will be port matched to the heads and theres a good chance Ill do as much as I can on the inside.
The main reason that im going to a 87 turbo is that its bigger than the stock one and I have all the parts. Not to mention anything bigger wont fit in the stock housing the way it looks to me. I dont know of any stock turbo'd C/T cars in the 12's. I think the only documented car is Rich's and runs high 13's if I remember right. I dont think there is a "stock" C/T in the 12's. Meaning using stock carb location stock turbo/foot and stock plenum.
My goal is 12.90's with E85. If I can get it there Id be amazed. Id be satisfied with 13.99.
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
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- May 4, 2005
makes sense I guess. I would run e85 and alky. That way you get the intake charge also. Have you run the washer tank and fluid setup yet?
Speaking of modding, has anyone heard from a.j. lately?
Speaking of modding, has anyone heard from a.j. lately?
I used the exducer side Jesse. I did this for better spool up. The C/T exducer is huge compared to the 86-87. The inducer can be modified to use a larger wheel but, doing this alone will make it very laggy. You're trying to move more mass and the lag will be much worse but you will develop more power.
dumb question but if i were to find a 86/87 hot side could you use the stock D/T waste gate housing on that housing?
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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- Mar 9, 2009
I havnt ran the alky tank yet. Car has been in winter storage for the past month or so.
Talking about exducers, does a 84/85 hot side housing bolt on? Does it have all the same mounting holes? Ive gotta get a new exducer and shaft anyways. Id just go to a 87 hot side but it is just completly different then a C/T hot side and dont feel like building brackets, getting it to fit, building a new up and down pipe. Just too much work.
I think my answer is a 83 hot side and 87 cold side. Probably wont be much more laggy than a stock 80.
Talking about exducers, does a 84/85 hot side housing bolt on? Does it have all the same mounting holes? Ive gotta get a new exducer and shaft anyways. Id just go to a 87 hot side but it is just completly different then a C/T hot side and dont feel like building brackets, getting it to fit, building a new up and down pipe. Just too much work.
I think my answer is a 83 hot side and 87 cold side. Probably wont be much more laggy than a stock 80.
Sorry Matt, you have to either use the 84-85 or the 86-87 waste gate. Different bolt patterns.
Wanna bet?:biggrin: Ask Rich. He's done this and isn't happy about the lag.
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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- Mar 9, 2009
So if you have approximatly the same rotating mass as a stock GN turbo, how the heck would it be more laggy? Yeah, a stock C/T would push less air that a stock GN but a C/T running 13's pushes the same amount of air as a stock GN running 13's.
And that heavy turbo on a stock C/T would spin slower and lag more, but with a bigger cam, big DP, opened up carb, and a motor running strong theres no reason it should lag.
Maybe its because im stubborn, but Id rather put a bigger turbo together and actually try something and learn than sit around with that tiny turbo (even if it isnt that laggy) and not learn anything. You cant get anything done just sitting around.
And that heavy turbo on a stock C/T would spin slower and lag more, but with a bigger cam, big DP, opened up carb, and a motor running strong theres no reason it should lag.
Maybe its because im stubborn, but Id rather put a bigger turbo together and actually try something and learn than sit around with that tiny turbo (even if it isnt that laggy) and not learn anything. You cant get anything done just sitting around.
The issue is the mass overall. The factory exducer is very heavy and if you add the weight of the larger inducer it will slow the spool down. You may make it work better with the mods to the heads and a larger cam but it will at least be as slow as the stock one.
Look in the turbo thread Matt. Rich poopood it and pointed out that he's got a larger inducer wheel and it has tons of lag.
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
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- May 4, 2005
Didn't he even put a 3k stall in and it still wasn't any better than the stock turbo?
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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- Mar 9, 2009
Im sure that turbo will lag, but if a GN can spool a TA60 theres no reason I wont be able to spool this turbo with a 83 hot side. Yeah, its heavyer than a stock 80 turbo but my car actually spools up quick if you are above 15 MPH. And thats all because of the 2.41 I have.
Just because it lagged on Rich's car doesnt mean it will lag on mine. I prefer not to make assumtions from one persons experience. I think it has more to do with poor down pipes than anything. Going from my stock one to my 2.5" mandrel helped with spool time like crazy. Id rather build somthing and actually find something out than guessing that it will lag and not doing it and turning out that it wouldnt lag.
Anyways, this showed up yesterday.
Just because it lagged on Rich's car doesnt mean it will lag on mine. I prefer not to make assumtions from one persons experience. I think it has more to do with poor down pipes than anything. Going from my stock one to my 2.5" mandrel helped with spool time like crazy. Id rather build somthing and actually find something out than guessing that it will lag and not doing it and turning out that it wouldnt lag.
Anyways, this showed up yesterday.
Im sure that turbo will lag, but if a GN can spool a TA60 theres no reason I wont be able to spool this turbo with a 83 hot side. Yeah, its heavyer than a stock 80 turbo but my car actually spools up quick if you are above 15 MPH. And thats all because of the 2.41 I have.
Just because it lagged on Rich's car doesnt mean it will lag on mine. I prefer not to make assumtions from one persons experience. I think it has more to do with poor down pipes than anything. Going from my stock one to my 2.5" mandrel helped with spool time like crazy. Id rather build somthing and actually find something out than guessing that it will lag and not doing it and turning out that it wouldnt lag.
Anyways, this showed up yesterday.
send it back, i had a edeljunk cam it didn't work out for me. charlies did so maybe i got a junk one.
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