TSM rules vote

[turbot990]

I am of the opinion that rule changes should be geared towards allowing more people into the class and safety, but not towards going faster. Our cars are already considered "too far out there" which appears to be the number one reason (that I have heard) as to why people do not join.

Weight limits will not change...nor will the turbo size be voted upon. As Tim and others have pointed out, the turbo rule does need to be updated so as to allow the turbo that most people are running in TSM. The gains in TSM power have come about from the changes in turbo technology, not the 1 mm increase in wheel size. As such, I say we officially allow the 71-HPQ and have a new plug machined to enforce it.

What I would like to see is someone to step up and either volunteer to track down sponsorships and/or a vendor/benefactor step up to fund the point series

Scott Kev here im back im putting my tsm car together as we speak bud

 

[turbot990]

Yep!!! what that guy said lmao rules rules ELECTRIC WATER PUMP cool

 

[Chris Hogeland]

Whats the word on the rules vote?

 

[Mike E]

I am of the opinion that rule changes should be geared towards allowing more people into the class and safety, but not towards going faster. Our cars are already considered "too far out there" which appears to be the number one reason (that I have heard) as to why people do not join...

I have not raced in TSM, but I am building a car that fits the class. I'm on the fence about building a legal TSM motor for one main reason, the 109 block.

I really hate the idea of pouring tens of thousands into a motor that is based on an unreliable stock block, when a similar motor with a stage block would cost roughly the same or maybe even less and be rock solid reliable. Is the 109 block really a limiting factor in TSM? Could the fastest cars go faster with a stage block? What is the price difference between a TSM prepped 109 block and an equivalent cast iron stage block?.

With only 6 races a year for TSM, I want to be able to compete in local races. But, the stock block really limits the flexability (turbo changes) to run other classes. How many stage motor cars are out there that, other than a turbo change, fit the tsm rules but aren't anywhere close to being competitive in TSO? How many production headed TSO/TSL cars woud be willing to put a smaller turbo on there car to run TSM?

 

[KevinB]

I have not raced in TSM, but I am building a car that fits the class. I'm on the fence about building a legal TSM motor for one main reason, the 109 block.

I really hate the idea of pouring tens of thousands into a motor that is based on an unreliable stock block, when a similar motor with a stage block would cost roughly the same or maybe even less and be rock solid reliable. Is the 109 block really a limiting factor in TSM? Could the fastest cars go faster with a stage block? What is the price difference between a TSM prepped 109 block and an equivalent cast iron stage block?.

With only 6 races a year for TSM, I want to be able to compete in local races. But, the stock block really limits the flexability (turbo changes) to run other classes. How many stage motor cars are out there that, other than a turbo change, fit the tsm rules but aren't anywhere close to being competitive in TSO? How many production headed TSO/TSL cars woud be willing to put a smaller turbo on there car to run TSM?

Are you asking to allow stage blocks?

I raced one tsm race in '10. Only plan on racing tsm next year if ths is not at the event or if my car gets ruled out lol.
Anyways I'd like to see the 295's become legal too.

 

[Mike E]

Are you asking to allow stage blocks?

I'm not currently a racer so I don't expect to be able to suggest any rule changes. I was just replying to Scott's post about why new people don't build cars to race in this class. I was heavily considering running TSM until I sat down and figured how much it would cost vs. building a TSO car. The difference wasn't substantial and I can run the TSO car at other races. But, I could do the same thing with a TSM car if I didn't have to worry about a stock block letting go.

I know the 109 block is a big foundation for this class, but that was before the cars could run 8's. The class is dying for a reason and I think that's part of it. Nobody wants to spend the money to buy all the expensive parts to build a TSM motor and stuff them in a ticking time bomb block.

109 block $300
Billet caps $200
Girdle $440
Head clamps $330 or 1/2" studs
Machine work to make it all work together ~$400
~$1700 total and your still stuck with an off-center block

Stage block ~$2000

The only power advantage I see in the stage block is the 4" bore. But to make 250 cubes, you have to run less stroke.

 

[Team Banana]

I'm not currently a racer so I don't expect to be able to suggest any rule changes. I was just replying to Scott's post about why new people don't build cars to race in this class. I was heavily considering running TSM until I sat down and figured how much it would cost vs. building a TSO car. The difference wasn't substantial and I can run the TSO car at other races. But, I could do the same thing with a TSM car if I didn't have to worry about a stock block letting go.

I know the 109 block is a big foundation for this class, but that was before the cars could run 8's. The class is dying for a reason and I think that's part of it. Nobody wants to spend the money to buy all the expensive parts to build a TSM motor and stuff them in a ticking time bomb block.

109 block $300
Billet caps $200
Girdle $440
Head clamps $330 or 1/2" studs
Machine work to make it all work together ~$400
~$1700 total and your still stuck with an off-center block

Stage block ~$2000

The only power advantage I see in the stage block is the 4" bore. But to make 250 cubes, you have to run less stroke.

We have been running the same 109 block for four seasons. We are not the fastest but mid nines for four years with no damage. If the driveshaft didn't take the block out we are going to make five seasons on the same block.
I am not understanding the time bomb thing.

 

[gbsean]

I am of the opinion that rule changes should be geared towards allowing more people into the class and safety, but not towards going faster. Our cars are already considered "too far out there" which appears to be the number one reason (that I have heard) as to why people do not join.

I have to agree with Scott here...with the limited venues for TSM to run the safety issue could pose a problem. With the new NHRA rule changes you have to be prepared to conform to the safety standards the track enforces. I know at National Trail some racers TSM THS TSO etc were barely checked...where as others had to show all documentation from chassis certs to NHRA license to taking out video cameras....I also know lap tops were an issue for some and others had no problems. If you go thru tech with lap top and video hooked up your are gonna get called out...simple...do not have it installed when teching...but you did not hear that from me...lol

 

[sackracing]

Why not merge TSM with TSL somehow and allow the stage blocks, then have a TSM similiar class with 70 turbos, 200r4 trannys, 10 bolt rears and DIS ignitions?

 

[HighPSI]

You wouldn't get a single TSL car in the class. Not one has a 70 turbo, 200r4 tranny, 10 bolt rear or DIS ignition. Heck, I'm not sure any of the TSM cars currently have all those items. Those are more like THS cars.
I do like the idea of the TSL cars swapping to a 70 turbo and maybe offering a 109 weight break.

 

[sackracing]

Sorry, I meant combine TSL and TSM and have a second class for the 70s, 200r4s and all. Kinda like TSM started out.

 

[johnplogii]

Not one has a 70 turbo, 200r4 tranny, 10 bolt rear or DIS ignition. Heck, I'm not sure any of the TSM cars currently have all those items.

I do.

So how about any rule changes? Will there be a vote? And what will be the proposed changes?

 

[southern boost]

I do.

So how about any rule changes? Will there be a vote? And what will be the proposed changes?

Hey John there will be vote figure 1st of the year and annouced after wards.

 

[southern boost]

I'm not currently a racer so I don't expect to be able to suggest any rule changes. I was just replying to Scott's post about why new people don't build cars to race in this class. I was heavily considering running TSM until I sat down and figured how much it would cost vs. building a TSO car. The difference wasn't substantial and I can run the TSO car at other races. But, I could do the same thing with a TSM car if I didn't have to worry about a stock block letting go.

I know the 109 block is a big foundation for this class, but that was before the cars could run 8's. The class is dying for a reason and I think that's part of it. Nobody wants to spend the money to buy all the expensive parts to build a TSM motor and stuff them in a ticking time bomb block.

109 block $300
Billet caps $200
Girdle $440
Head clamps $330 or 1/2" studs
Machine work to make it all work together ~$400
~$1700 total and your still stuck with an off-center block

Stage block ~$2000

The only power advantage I see in the stage block is the 4" bore. But to make 250 cubes, you have to run less stroke.

This class has 3 base rules turbo size ,weights and 109 block .

 

[johnplogii]

Thanks Randy.

 

[johnplogii]

Any word when any changes will be posted?

 

[RICHIE HIGH PSI]

why the delay on the vote ?

 

[sackracing]

Working on my car, I'd like to know too

 

[RYAN GRAVES]

Hello, Is anybody out there??? I see the TSO rules are pretty much wrapped up.

 

[johnplogii]

Who is going to vote? People who raced last year? Or people who will be racing this year? TSO took the votes from people who will be participating this year it appears. Is the voting to take place in this thread? And where will I find a list of events for 2011?