FBI/Law Enforcement Grand Nationals and GNXs

[Epitome]

There have been a lot of stories over the years and I know there was a police option code. I am also aware of a few departments that had undercover GNs and Ts, but what is the final concensus or proof of FBI GNXs (I doubt it) or fleet type GNs for the FBI as in this article? My understanding is that there was never anything special from Buick directly, just whatever the department or agency did to the car. This article claims it was marked GN and numbered for the FBI. I am also aware of the 145 mph speedometer, but I have never thought it was available from the factory, just aftermarket. Thanks

 

[GregInAtl]

its just enough info to answer the question. I like the article heading, still dont fully sell out to the FBI car theory. A pin stripe is nothing to convince me, nor are vinyl badges any sign shopproduces(Or even wal mart has pre cut). The 145 speedo is strange, like the tranny, but since there is no window decal to show the OEM change in these, I'd question authenticity.
More proof, there there may be no real proof.
BTW, what is the yellow "post it" note covering?

 

[wagon]

One of the differences that they list is that it has a 2004R, not a 700R4. That isn't FBI specific, so apparently this owner and the person that wrote this article knew even less than they think. Or maybe it is FBI specific and all of my TRs are FBI ordered TRs? If so, then they are all going up for sale, even the broken ones. (most of them)

 

[turbofish38]

Another BS story! Hey for once I can't pick on Kirban for the source. Well I'm not going to proclaim I'm the expert on the FBI cars but here is what I know about them. First they were all T-Types. They were all 1986. There were no special codes on the SPID label,I think? There is a specific code on the chip that signifies the 127MPH speed limiter was removed which means the cars should have some type of speed rated tires on it which I would think means that there would have been a tire code to reflect the different tires. The stock tire codes are QYZ for blackwalls and QYH for OutlineWhiteLetter. Goodyear did list a 215/65-15 Eagle GT for police work but I can't think of what car they would have put them on other than the Regal. The B-Body used the 225/70-15 size. They all used the standard 85MPH speedo. These were undercover cars afterall. Somewhere I have the broadcast code for the FBI chip in my archives. Several people have stated over the years that they have one of these T-Types and they certainly fit the description to a T(Pun!). Bench seat,column shift,gun rack on the roof, switch holes on the dash and leftover brackets for radios and antennas. Kind of like if the cops were to order a standard 9C1 Caprice but only used the Regal order form instead. Really if you think about it the SSP Mustangs that came out around the same time pretty much could do the same thing as the TR and better for less money.

Now I can debunk the story mentioned in the SuperFacts book real easily. Why would the cops or FBI use a GN for under cover work? Hey you could of used a Impala or Diplomat(this was the 80's) if you needed a plain brown wrapper or patrol unit. There is no evidence of any other equipment like a gun rack or full size spare or radio equipment racks anywhere on that car. That's a cheesey 145 speedo overlay in there. Plenty of vendors selling those. The car was converted by a dealer and somebody hung some decals on it. The Buddy guy was a dipthong who bought the car to cruise to the disco in. The FBI never bought cars from a dealer. The US government leaves all of the buying to the GSA who in turn is a fleet that gets them directly through GM or the manufacturer.

I collect anything that relates to turbocharged Buicks. Somewhere in a bankers box I have the original sidebar about the FBI T-types that Forbes, yes that's right a money magazine and not HotRod, wrote back in 1986. IIRC they stated it was an even 100 T-Types that went to the FBI and Treasurey Dept.

 

[Epitome]

This is all in line with my understanding of FBI/Law Enforcement myths. The law enforcement code that I believe to be real must simply mean it has the mph limiter removed from the chip. Any other input would be appreciated, but I remember all the rumors about this stuff that were debunked back in the early and mid 1990s. I am 99.9% sure that the 145 mph speedometer was never available from GM and was only aftermarket. If that is true, then you can see the whole article should be considered bogus.

 

[INEEDAGN]

The transmission comment made me chuckle.

What a tool.

Also IIRC there's a type of car with a SIMILAR dash but had a 145 speedo in it. And the overlays simply copied the idea. Not sure on that but I think it could be scored out of a different car.

 

[Brad Conley]

Guys,
The 145 speedo plate is from a Canadian car...do the math. 145 x .62 (kph to mph) = 89.9, close enough to the standard 85 mph US speedo. Also, many vendors "back in the day" made an overlay to convert an 85 mph speedo to 145 mph with the use of a gearbox placed in line on the speedo cable with a .62 gear reduction. These boxes are commonly available in speedo shops. This would make your car read upto 145 mph. It would also allow you to rack up only 62% of the actual miles driven

 

[Epitome]

Sorry to disagree Brad That dash is not a Canadian dash. My GN is Canadian and has the 145kph dash in it and it looks much different. Also, look and see the kph conversion in small orange letters above the mph numbers. On my dash the conversion numbers max out at 85 mph. I have only seen 145 mph dash plates like this in the aftermarket.

 

[GNVenom]

Years ago, probably in 1992 or so, I had a customer who worked for the FBI, and had purchased one of their "fleet" T types which supposedly was one of the infamous FBI cars. I had him send me the PROM chip because he wasn't sure it had the speed limiter removed. I looked at the chip on the burner and it was in fact a 124MPH stock PROM, I believe CMW was the code. Nothing special there and no modification to the speed limiter section of the chip.

Around that time, I located a digital dash cluster out of a wrecked car, and found some very interesting factory-installed, yet hand printed labeling on it:

http://www.installationinstructions.com/FYI/digitaldash-police.pdf

Notice the label affixed to the RFI shield was hand-written and was made of the same label stock as the broadcast code label, telling me that it was a factory-built special production part.

Sure enough, it had the GM engineering rewrite program in it, which indicated true MPH up to 199 - did not flash at 85 like the standard digital dash. I believe these dash clusters were reworked by a GM facility and slipped into special production.

Eric, do you know anything about this "modification"?

 

[GNBRETT]

Smells like BS to me. Interesting tho...

 

[GNBRETT]

Guys,
The 145 speedo plate is from a Canadian car...do the math. 145 x .62 (kph to mph) = 89.9, close enough to the standard 85 mph US speedo. Also, many vendors "back in the day" made an overlay to convert an 85 mph speedo to 145 mph with the use of a gearbox placed in line on the speedo cable with a .62 gear reduction. These boxes are commonly available in speedo shops. This would make your car read upto 145 mph. It would also allow you to rack up only 62% of the actual miles driven

Nope.

 

[troGNman]

I have that same book Ted. That very article perplexed me too but there were too many things missing on that car to make it a LE/FBI car.

- I'm pretty certain that if that dash was to be used in a police vehicle, it would require a "Certification". Many Caprices and Ford speedos were labeled "police certified".

- The Goodyear Eagle GT's in standard GN/T size were not speed-rated. However the 235/60-15 used on the 84-85 H.O. Z28 was.

- The standard GN/T brakes were horribly inadequate.

- No heavy-duty/severe-service cooling system available.

- F41 is suspension OK at best.

- standard charging system with no upgrade available.

- A car that only runs on Premium gas. Do local/state municipalities have more than one gas pump for their fleet.

Ford's Crown Vic "Police Interceptors" and Chevy's 9C1 package Mailbus and Caprices contained all of the aforementioned goodies with real part numbers to back it up.

I remember back in 1986/87 seeing the Connecticut State Police using GN's on I-95. I'd like to know how much their cars differed from production cars.

 

[Epitome]

The 1987 Turbo T I used to own was previously ordered new by a close friend. It had a digital dash. ALL stock digital dashes were capable of the 199 mph reading, but needed to be modified from stock to do this. My friend sent his digital dash cluster out to be modified to allow it to read up to 199 mph. There was an aftermarket company doing this back in the late 1980s. So it could definitely be modfied in the aftermarket. I am sure I could get exact details from him since he did all the work to that car.

 

[GNVenom]

That aftermarket company would be Caspers Electronics Still doing it today...

 

[hrhoward]

Bogus!

The comment regarding the transmission alone is enough for me to discount the whole write-up. Saying that the law enforcement TR's came with a 200R4 instead of a 700R4 is like saying that the black ones were made by Chevrolet!

 

[turbofish38]

I know nothing about the DD speedo mod. But it interesting to see it. As far as speedos go the special 140 factory part was from the 83 Riviera Indy Pace Car replica. Mark sells the overlay for this one as well. And not all Police speedos had the word Certified on them. The Camaro B4C doesn't and since we are talking about G-bodies the Malibu 9C1 didn't either. The Canadian speedo says KPH on it. Here are pics of a few speedos mentioned. You know one piece of equipment that cops always specify as mandatory equipment is a full size spare. Buick had a code for the Regal which is RPO/SEO N81. I wonder if these magic T-Types have that code on the SPID label? They welded a bracket to the middle of the trunk floor and the spare layed flat in the trunk instead of like the donut spare in the well. To bad Buick didn't continue offereing a 9C1 type cop car. The last real cop car was the 79 LeSabre and the MO Highway Patrol is the only place I've ever seen them. I have the 120 speedo out of one. Before that was the 74-77 Century. If you watched Kojak in the 70's you might remember he drove one of those. I have parts listed for a police speedo in the 78-81 Century parts catalog too altough I've never seen one.

 

[nullrout]

I - I'm pretty certain that if that dash was to be used in a police vehicle, it would require a "Certification". Many Caprices and Ford speedos were labeled "police certified".

Spedometer only needs to be cert/calibrated if tickets are to be issued off of it...I.E. speeding ticket issued by pacing. The FBI/Treasury dept isn't/wasn't interested in issuing speeding tickets.

 

[turbofabricator]

That aftermarket company would be Caspers Electronics Still doing it today...

Yea!.........Like you would know ANYTHING about THAT!

 

[INEEDAGN]

You know one piece of equipment that cops always specify as mandatory equipment is a full size spare. Buick had a code for the Regal which is RPO/SEO N81. I wonder if these magic T-Types have that code on the SPID label? They welded a bracket to the middle of the trunk floor and the spare layed flat in the trunk instead of like the donut spare in the well.

So why the hell would they weld a bracket in when a full size fits in the spare tire well just fine? I carry a 15X7 olds rally wheel as a full size spare, though I never tried to fasten it with the nut. Even if it required a special through bolt, it'd be easier/better than adding a bracket.

The only thing the local cops don't like about the new dodge charger cop car is that the full size spare was an afterthought and kills half of the trunk room.

 

[1of1547]

While we were at the the 2005 BPG Nats a guy started asking me questions about Adam's Grand National. He told me that he worked for the Pittsburgh Police Department and they had 4 undercover Turbo Regals. He said that they got from their local FBI office because they ordered to many or just didn't need them. If my memory serves me right they were dark blue, maroon, silver, and white. One was repainted a different color than the factory color. One was also totaled. But the T/Rs were deemed to fast for the officers to use. Instead the heads of the Police, Fire department, EMT, and Safety department were assigned the Regals. He also said that the Safety Coordinator was caught racing his. When the higher ups got done playing with them he was assigned the dark blue Regal. He was very knowledgeable about the car. He said that it was set up for VASCAR. As they got older they were retired from normal service and used for running errands and undercover work. I asked him about the undercover work. He said that they were used for surveillance use. Since they were less conspicuous than the Caprices. They blended in with traffic and in parking lots. He did say at least the dark blue Regal made it out alive and into private hands. He told me he was at a local car show looking for Corvettes and he found his old blue Regal. The current owner had restored it back to the police car status. He went as far as getting another VASCAR computer and put it back in. If memory serves me right he said it was not the correct unit but very similar. I think he said the license plate was VASCAR1 on it.