Attn:Lee_ Burough-board Of Directors

[BlownV6]

ATTN: LEE BOROUGHS - BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Your decision to close the thread I posted about David Hunter AKA Country
Bumpkin was both stupid and rediculious!!! And now this feedback Post will
be directed directly at you and this board!!

IF YOU SEE FIT TO CLOSE MY THREAD because people other than the 2 partys involved were posting on this thread , Then please close practacally every thread in this section!!! While your at it just DELETE THE WHOLE DAM* CATEGORY!!! Most of the threads in this section contain post from members other than the 2 parties involved!!!

I attempted to resolve this off-line with you but got the following response
in a personal message.

Originally Posted by Lee_Burough
Hello,

Admin is making a concerted effort to enforce the guidelines in the FEEDBACK forum. I've closed your thread there because of all the extraneous posting.

Please make a new posting, bringing us all up to date. Everyone jumping in with their two cents does not help your interests, it just makes it cloudy and vague.

Please ask for a response from your seller only.

Thanks

Leeb

Lee, That was just about the stupidest thing that I have ever seen done on this board!!! WTF are you doing!!! I spent days laying this whole thing out for all the board members to see and respond to , and with one click you CLOSE IT !!! Somebody on this board better call me and explain this action please!!
That is just rediculous!! 937 272-4313 Mike

I sure didn't try to hurt your feelings here, but you won't receive a call from me.

Please take a minute to read the FEEDBACK forum rules and abide by them.

Take your issues to the lounge if you want board members to say what they feel about it.

The feedback forum is intended for use by the buyer and/or seller only.

I do not take kindly to attitudes. :

Somebody on this board better call me and explain this action please!!
That is just rediculous!! 937 272-4313 Mike/QUOTE]


MY STATEMENT STILL STANDS!! Somebody from this board needs to explain to me why it is better for the members of this forum to remain silent , when there is obviously a member of this board that is not playing above board.

EXCUSE ME for trying to bring the dealings Ive had with this member to the attention of all the members on this board!!

So please FOLLOW THE FORUM RULES and delete every post that contains post from more than the 2 involved parties!!!

Mike

 

[Junior Samples]

As noted by Mr B
Take your issues to the lounge if you want board members to say what they feel about it.

Lounge for relaxed laidback off topics like best drummer or funny story

Why drag negative feedback over there? Mr B sometimes it takes a group responding to get the accused to respond, if you look back at the posts once people started getting involved, it was only then that CB jumped on and said
"hey ok i want to make this right" then once pressure got hot he cried foul and pulled out the RULES card. As of yet he hasnt made anything right

Its bad enough that someone gets takin for even 25 bucks but um 2500?...not chump change, so if its between two people then why allow it on here at all?

i dont know
Oops i should have responded

 

[Lee_Burough]

This subject is more appropriate in the Lounge....So, there it goes.

I take your point mcasteel2112. Some of the threads in the FEEDBACK forum have gone out of control, hence, the ADMIN decision to rein them in and leave that forum for its original intent: Posts between buyer and seller.

My suggestion to repost still stands. Reposting actually gives you a new chance to lay the facts out for future customers of your seller....A good thing.

A word of advice....You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Still sending my best Regards, this is not a personal thing.

Leeb

 

[Junior Samples]

I look at both sides here, yes it got way outta hand on certain threads like people say go whip his a$$ or kill em!...lol that doesnt help i agree but lets look at it this way

For one, people looking to get issues with payment or product resolved sometimes need back up and they should be allowed back up. Someone might think of something to add that the Poster forgot or didnt see or whatever and that input can be very important to either back the chump into a corner or chase his sorry butt away.

Maybe the site needs to add a Negative feed back area all to its self and enter at your own risk. Theres people on this board that have never even been in the lounge so the fight club will get lost

You cant expect to reign in these scammers with a G rating,
They should be jam piled on and ran outta town

Ive been over to the LS1 forum and the list of scammed people is huge, my mouth dropped at the list on there.

And this Warren fool, once again he took more money and never had any intention of delivering so poor Cheeseburger is out alot of dough.

I just dont understand how the board can police us honest people but not police the crooks...i see enough of that in the real world.

 

[nisnutz]

A word of advice....You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.



Wow great advice

 

[BlackMetal]

Feedback forum is completely pointless if it's only between buyer and seller. That is was PM, email, phone, etc are for. What's the point of providing a forum where the issues can be vented in public if you don't want the public to participate. I read some of the comments regarding this whole situation, i.e. "those rules were in place before current management purchased these forums". O...kay, what's your point? The rules can and should be changed if a majority of the community is against it. Obviously many of us participate in the Feedback forum and post in the threads that don't directly relate to us. Obviously desperate for a response if the best you can come up with is "the rules were always like that".

I can understand WHY you don't want other parties posting in the threads, because then they get out of hand and taken off track. But frankly if you're trying to avoid stupid comments and arguments, you might as well close every thread and the entire forum while you're at it. It's an online forum, stupid crap is going to get said. The majority of us make intelligent posts and only enter a thread that doesn't relate to us if we have had prior dealings with the vendor in question, etc.

The suggestion that discussions should be taken to the lounge if you want input from other people is completely stupid. Does "THE LOUNGE" sound like a place for heated debate? So you'd rather have TWO threads about one issue, one in the feedback forum and one in the lounge? Yeah, that sounds like a real efficient set-up.

Some of the rules around here are completely STUPID and it's sad that the #1 priority around here isn't listening to what the car community wants. You wouldn't have a hugely popular internet forum if it wasn't for the people that inhabit it, I suggest you start listening to us and drop the dictator attitudes.

Notice how many threads have ZERO replies in the "suggestions and help" forum. Shows how much you really care about us.

 

[87natl]

Not letting others repond and get involved is missing out on an opportunity, IMO. When there is negative feedback about a transaction, I have seen 2 things happen:

1. The seller receives suport from the community in an outpourng of positive feedback, and the incident may be looked at as an isolated incident and it ends up actually being BENEFICIAL to the vendor.

2. Other posters with negative experiences with this seller, or those that analyze the story laid out and decide the seller is in the wrong put additional pressure on the seller to correct this issue. If a seller is facing one guy he screwed over, he is less inclined to make things right than if he has a whole community voicing their displeasue with his actions...or inactions as it may be.

So as I see it, allowing our community to get involved in disputes has value.

 

[Junior Samples]

Feedback forum is completely pointless if it's only between buyer and seller. That is was PM, email, phone, etc are for. What's the point of providing a forum where the issues can be vented in public if you don't want the public to participate. I read some of the comments regarding this whole situation, i.e. "those rules were in place before current management purchased these forums". O...kay, what's your point? The rules can and should be changed if a majority of the community is against it. Obviously many of us participate in the Feedback forum and post in the threads that don't directly relate to us. Obviously desperate for a response if the best you can come up with is "the rules were always like that".

I can understand WHY you don't want other parties posting in the threads, because then they get out of hand and taken off track. But frankly if you're trying to avoid stupid comments and arguments, you might as well close every thread and the entire forum while you're at it. It's an online forum, stupid crap is going to get said.

The suggestion that discussions should be taken to the lounge if you want input from other people is completely stupid. Does "THE LOUNGE" sound like a place for heated debate? So you'd rather have TWO threads about one issue, one in the feedback forum and one in the lounge? Yeah, that sounds like a real efficient set-up.

Some of the rules around here are completely STUPID and it's sad that the #1 priority around here isn't listening to what the car community wants. You wouldn't have a hugely popular internet forum if it wasn't for the people that inhabit it, I suggest you start listening to us and drop the dictator attitudes.

exactamundo

 

[JayC]

I suggest you start listening to us and drop the dictator attitudes.

Havent been to many forums, have you? This forum is run WAAAAY looser than A) It should be and B) Any of the other larger automotive forums.

If this place was run like SRTForums.Com, everyone here would revolt.

 

[Junior Samples]

Not letting others repond and get involved is missing out on an opportunity, IMO. When there is negative feedback about a transaction, I have seen 2 things happen:

1. The seller receives suport from the community in an outpourng of positive feedback, and the incident may be looked at as an isolated incident and it ends up actually being BENEFICIAL to the vendor.

2. Other posters with negative experiences with this seller, or those that analyze the story laid out and decide the seller is in the wrong put additional pressure on the seller to correct this issue. If a seller is facing one guy he screwed over, he is less inclined to make things right than if he has a whole community voicing their displeasue with his actions...or inactions as it may be.

So as I see it, allowing our community to get involved in disputes has value.

You said it much better then I

Havent been to many forums, have you? This forum is run WAAAAY looser than A) It should be and B) Any of the other larger automotive forums.

If this place was run like SRTForums.Com, everyone here would revolt.

Well look how many people they have to cater to? not many teenagers on here with the latest Buick Tuner, there dealing with a crowd that waltzed over to the dealership and plunked down their sig on the dotted line.

So I really dont see comparing oranges to apples, this forum has G rated smileys, no foul language and its pleasant and honestly i like it that way but when crap hits the fan Jay you guys should be the first to jump in and help put the verbal smakdown and chase these scamming jerks off...or at least make it known that they are not welcome

 

[JayC]

I agree but if we run them off, then the person that got scammed has no recourse for getting their money back as it just gives the scammer an excuse to vanish. We did ban Marvin'sGN and WestSide500 among others.

I try to get involved when I can and nudge scammers along, especially the ones that want to continue to participate here. Ive PM'd them, told them they need to make things right and am usually met with either a sob story or a "f*ck you" and then I ban them.

You cant make everyone happy all the time and this is one of those cases. We could just remove the Feedback forum altogether and let people fend for themselves.

CountryBumpkin hasnt logged in in over two weeks and hasnt made a post in almost 6. Its pretty obvious at this point that BlownV6 is probably not going to see any money out of this guy and as he isnt visiting the forums, all the piling on and so called pressure isnt doing anything but polluting the forum.

If BlownV6 wants him banned, Ill ban him. Short of driving to Florida and trying to collect myself, thats about all I can do.

As people continue to do business with the guy, it doesnt seem like anyone else on the forum is really too concerned about it tho.

 

[Junior Samples]

Yeah i guess we could go round and round about this topic, really in the end its just a waste of type writing time.

Blown6 is prolly going to file small claims in FL, we been talking about it a little, lot of money at stake, just get judgment and garnish is all he can do unless CB collects scrap metal for a livin

 

[TurboDiverArt]

Having had the pleasure to deal with Mike Booher I decided to read this thread. Was the other thread closed for posting or deleted? I went to go click on it for background reading on what's going on and all I can see is a single post saying Mike sent him a PM? Because of this I now have no idea what the issue is or what was done to resolve it. It would appear as if this guy bought some stuff from Mike and Mike got stiffed! I don't understand why information was deleted or locked cause now I've got no idea what the issue is.

If Mike got ripped off I truly feel sorry for him. I needed new heads last year and Mike was great to deal with and very patient while the heads were checked out at the machine shop. He's a great guy to deal with.

Art.

 

[BlownV6]

Art , Thank you for the kind words!! And thank you for pointing out that this whole issue is now lost in 3 different post across 2 different forums thanks to the ease of ONE CLICK by Mr Boroughs locking the original thread
in the feedback forum!!

I have worked very hard to provide parts and service to the buick community and keep my name as "a good guy to deal with". I have shipped many of you parts that you needed desperatly on the same day you call-- without any money!!! Trusting that I would be paid , and for the most part I have been.

Now I came on here to the feedback forum to try to resolve a problem with David Hunter AKA Country Bumpkin!!! Many of you chimed in on this totally backing me up!!! I wish to thank you all!! When the pressure from YOU members became great DH would respond and vow to resolve the issue.
He claimed that he would pay me with his tax refund , A few of you intrested parties recently posted questions as weather this had been settled or not!!!
THUS in the logic of LEE BOROUGHS he closed the post!!! WTF was he thinking!!! I sent him a PM demanding that someone from this board call me and explain why this was done!! Lee PMd me back stating that he would not be calling me ,so I posted an attack on him and this board on this subject in the feedback forum!!! Mr Boroughs closed that post , and moved it here in the lounge!!

WTF is the feedback forum for!!! I got scammed , laid out the facts in the feedback forum for all to see. 100% of the members on this board took my side on the issue and demanded that David Hunter get this straightened out.
I believe that it was going to get resolved thanks in LARGE part to all of you.
When the pressure was on , David Hunter pointed out that the rules for the feedback forum read that post are between the 2 parties. SO WHAT DOES THE BOARD DO!!! SENDS A MESSAGE OUT REQUESTING THAT EVERYONE ELSE STAY OUT OF IT!!! THAT IS JUST WRONG!!!! Practically every post in the feedback forum contains post from members other than the 2 parties involved. They havent deleted or locked them!!

So here we are in the lounge!! I would like to see a change in the rules in the feedback forum!! I NEED YOUR HELP!!! If you feel that the the feedback forum is a tool for both your protection and information ,and should be an open forum for both positive and negative comments then please get on board here and let this board know your thoughts.

I personally feel that the lock on the original post needs to be removed!!!

BACKUP REQUESTED!!!!! Thanks Mike

 

[SGRIM]

There was nothing personal here against Mike B. or any other member... If you read my first post in that thread I said "it is obvious what happened here." It was obvious Mike got screwed.... IMO until CB explains or makes this right he is not a welcome member at TurboBuick.com. I can't ban him for it, but... I have been screwed by a few guys on the board, I didn't ban them they are still members.

Where the problem comes in is, if a person wanted to read the feedback of the transaction they have to read through post after post of opinions not the actual facts... I know after a couple of pages I get tired of reading....
I hope you see where I am coming from. Alot more efficient for the purpose of feedback if just the facts are there...

NO, the thread was not deleted... We don't delete any threads and any that are removed go into a file so we have copies of everything.... In case anything comes up!

Rules are in the feedback section. It is a place for FACTS not opinions!
They rules were wrote before we took over the board. We felt they were fair so we kept them in place. The actually work just as good if handled properly. Admins do not mind helping, remember that!!!

We do not have a dictatorship rule here, just enforcing the rules.

A discussion of the problem can be started in the in the lounge with a link back to the thread in feedback. Then everybody can comment on it in the lounge....

It is very simple what we are asking, details and facts in feedback and then if you want start a thread in the lounge for others to comment. That is perfectly fine.....

The board is growing and we are just trying to keep the board on track and threads in the proper forums...

We are here to help, we listen to you members. You should see how many PM's I get a day. I try my best to return each one and discuss problems with other admins.

We are here to provide you with the best Buick Board period....

 

[Lee_Burough]

....snip....Blown6 is prolly going to file small claims in FL, we been talking about it a little, lot of money at stake, just get judgment and garnish is all he can do unless CB collects scrap metal for a livin

Three things:

1. I'm sure everyone here wishes him godspeed with his court case.

2. The original thread is still in the FEEDBACK forum, you may have your preferences set to cut off the list of posts to something less than three days....Go to your UserCP and open your personal settings to 7 days and you'll see it.

3. The points made concerning uneven enforcement in the FEEDBACK forum are valid. We'll be working on that. Uneven enforcement notwithstanding, the forum has succeeded in exposing a few bad apples, and praising the multitude of good Turbo Buick traders. That is the intent of the forum, nothing more.

 

[Lee_Burough]

Three things:

1. I'm sure everyone here wishes him godspeed with his court case.

2. The original thread is still in the FEEDBACK forum, you may have your preferences set to cut off the list of posts to something less than three days....Go to your UserCP and open your personal settings to 7 days and you'll see it.

3. The points made concerning uneven enforcement in the FEEDBACK forum are valid. We'll be working on that. Uneven enforcement notwithstanding, the forum has succeeded in exposing a few bad apples, and praising the multitude of good Turbo Buick traders. That is the intent of the forum, nothing more.

P.S. Banning CB would affectively end any pressure TB.com and its members have in the matter....Just a thought

 

[Junior Samples]

So its like damned if ya do and damned if ya dont.

As Mike and I were talking about, we both agreed that CB got his paws on the money and tried to ship as cheep as possible.
he tossed it all in one box...yes all of it so at least he wasnt trying to out and out scam Mike but 5K worth of parts tossed in one box that leaked along the way, it was just plain lazy and dumb of the guy and he should make good but hasnt as of yet.

Now ole Warren aka westside500, this guy just outright scams people dating back to 03...Karma will catch up to him

Got to get my butt back to work now

 

[BlownV6]

Lee and Sgrim, I made this a personal attack on you and this board because
I feel you personally attacked me!!! I realize that in reality you didnt!!! BUT
I had days of work involved in the old post explaning the day by day events exactly as they unfolded for every TB member to see!!! With there help some progress was made to resolve this situation!!! In my opinion that benifits all the TB members. Weather its people chiming in with positive or negative feedback on a person or issue it provides a broader picture of the persons involved.
Not a single member stepped up to David Hunters defense!!! ALL feedback post were directed toward him to resolve this deal!!! NOW as I see it the BOARD OF DIRECTORS is trying to sweep this under the rug without demanding that he resolve this!!! It was David Hunter that posted the rules violation. HE DID THIS BECAUSE THESE MEMBERS OVERWHELMINGLY PROVIDED SUPPORT FOR ME , AND DEMANDED THAT HE MAKE IT RIGHT!!!! Had it been 50% on both sides of the issue
then maybe it was just between us 2. But when the tide is shifted mostly
to one side USALLY there is a real problem.
Point being that your rule for the feedback section is WRONG!!! I feel that that feedback forum is there to provide information to the members about other members , positive or negitive. A member may post negative info about another member and 30 other members may chime in to offer their positive feedback. At 30 to 1 I would not have a problem dealing with that person. At 30 negative to 0 positive I make mental notes!!

As stated way back in the original post the rule is WRONG and should be changed!!!

If the rule is not wrong!! Then please delete or lock EVERY POST that contains comments from members other than the 2 involved parties!! FAIR IS FAIR!!! You locked mine!!

That will give the scammers the upper hand!! Because they will be able to run there scam , the cheated member will post negative feedback , the scammers buddy will make a post , and the board will LOCK IT!! with possibly dozens of others who were cheated by the scammer SILENCED by the lock out!!

Sorry I just dont understand the logic!!!

BTW Lee I appoligise for the personal attack!! Mike

 

[ttypewhite]

Just my 2 cents, but if I can't post to aid in a friend/ fellow board member, then there is no point to browse that forum, if I want to read I can just pick up a newspaper. So IMO I feel issues like this would get brushed under the carpet because one person can't effectively put the nessesary pressure needed to inforce some sort of resolvment. Without the community involvement cases like this would go no where because support is usually what promotes resolvment. Forum that gets activity, get answers. A forum that does not get activity gets bypassed, and that in itself misinforms everybody on this board about a board member that is not on the up and up. Turn this thread into a vote and let the community decide how the feedback should be viewed. If the majority votes for community involvment, I think that would make it a strong case to change the rules, and also put a feather in the cap of admins for listening and moving with the community based on overall feedback from the members. I hope you get this resolved Mike.