XTSM - Extreme TSM

[Yellow Brick]

Why are iron heads now getting a 200 lb break when they use to only get a 150 lb break?

Times ran at BG show that they dont need more of an advantage. I think the majority like the weights Kip suggested, including me.

 

[V6RACER]

Why are iron heads now getting a 200 lb break when they use to only get a 150 lb break?

Times ran at BG show that they dont need more of an advantage. I think the majority like the weights Kip suggested, including me.

Tim, they are at a disadvantage. The quickest ET an iron headed car has ever gone is 9.30.. Avg ET for iron headed cars is around 9.50 range.


The aluminum headed cars have been 8.90-9.20s consistantly in the past several years. Cruz, Kereny, Toni, JW, etc.



The extra 50lbs would keep them closer to the aluminum headed 109 cars and keep more participation in the class.

 

[sackracing]

Looks good. I assume rear coilovers are ok?

 

[V6RACER]

Looks good. I assume rear coilovers are ok?

Is that stock suspension?

 

[sackracing]

stock mounting locations......

 

[V6RACER]

stock mounting locations......

Stock suspension would be stock mounting points on frame, springs in stock location, and shocks in stock location.

 

[sackracing]

10-4, I'll close the Summit Racing tab I opened a few minutes ago....

 

[BobbyBuick]

I like the weights Kip posted better.What about wipers?horn?lights?
I had to buy and add all this stuff to my car inc exhaust now to take it back off?
Maybe exhaust existing in stock location but allowing a dump would make it more STREET and make more sense
This was STREET the "S" in TSM
I added power steering, also

 

[Team Banana]

3200 - Iron Production head "8445" casting / 109 / 71

3400 - Aluminum (Champion Style) head / 109 / 71

3650 - All Stage I & II on/off center any head / 71


-100 lbs for 67 3-bolt turbo from any combo
+100 lbs for Alcohol injection

*Safety requirments per track tech
*Factory Stock Appearing External Body must have headlights/tailights (81-87 Regal)
*FSA glass windows
*One 3 bolt turbo up to 71.5mm inducer/103mm exducer in factory stock location (No V-band downpipes)
*No Nitrous Oxide injection
*Iron heads must be production "8445" heads
*Stock suspension /mounting points (no wheelie bars)
*Any Exhaust must exit behind firewall
*Wastegate can be open to atmosphere
*Gasoline fuel only
*Alcohol Injection +100 lbs
*70mm Throttle body/cast intake manifold
*Tires - 15" wheel Front must be 3.5" wide footprint. Rear tires up to 29.5" x 10.5"(Slick), 29.5" x 12.5" DOT (ET-Street), or up to 295 series (Drag radial)
*Any GM automatic transmission
*Any GM differential, Dana 60, or Ford 9"

MAIN RULE:*** All rules subject to change due to fairness ***


Ultimate Goal
-The 71 turbo would limit the overall power potential to keep class ET close
-The 109 weights would improve 109 longevity
-Stage rules would allow more cars to join in with minimal changes
-Allows for many different combos to be competitive

I fixed your quote.

 

[re-evaluating]

I like the weights Kip posted better.What about wipers?horn?lights?
I had to buy and add all this stuff to my car inc exhaust now to take it back off?
Maybe exhaust existing in stock location but allowing a dump would make it more STREET and make more sense
This was STREET the "S" in TSM
I added power steering, also

What he said!

 

[Sydwyndr]

I like the weights Kip posted better.What about wipers?horn?lights?
I had to buy and add all this stuff to my car inc exhaust now to take it back off?
Maybe exhaust existing in stock location but allowing a dump would make it more STREET and make more sense
This was STREET the "S" in TSM
I added power steering, also

Sounds like you car is a perfect candidate minus turbo for the THS class. I would consider THS more of a street class than any other class out there with their high car count and looking at the cars myself. Even TSO has the word STREET in it. I would place XTSM as a middle class between street car and racecar. TSO would be considered an all out racecar class with basically anything goes. This leaves virtually everyone a place to race. Based on the wipers, horns, and lights that you are asking about, this may not be the class for you.

I have really no dog in this fight I will state. All I want to see is increased car count and participation and as a race director at 2 Buick events, I can see with current car counts that hanging on to things that once worked in the past, may not be the best way to stay for the future of Buick racing with the exception of THS. Im still fighting Index racing but thats a totally different thing all together

 

[re-evaluating]

Sounds like you car is a perfect candidate minus turbo for the THS class. I would consider THS more of a street class than any other class out there with their high car count and looking at the cars myself. Even TSO has the word STREET in it. I would place XTSM as a middle class between street car and racecar. TSO would be considered an all out racecar class with basically anything goes. This leaves virtually everyone a place to race. Based on the wipers, horns, and lights that you are asking about, this may not be the class for you.

Bobby is not new to TSM he has been around TSM a long time just sitting out a few. The class has just gone a long way away from what it was intended.

Kip got the weights right in my opinion.

 

[Team Banana]

Sounds like you car is a perfect candidate minus turbo for the THS class. I would consider THS more of a street class than any other class out there with their high car count and looking at the cars myself. Even TSO has the word STREET in it. I would place XTSM as a middle class between street car and racecar. TSO would be considered an all out racecar class with basically anything goes. This leaves virtually everyone a place to race. Based on the wipers, horns, and lights that you are asking about, this may not be the class for you.

I have really no dog in this fight I will state. All I want to see is increased car count and participation and as a race director at 2 Buick events, I can see with current car counts that hanging on to things that once worked in the past, may not be the best way to stay for the future of Buick racing with the exception of THS. Im still fighting Index racing but thats a totally different thing all together

JW told me that the wipers and horn have to stay on the car to keep the street in it.
Btw, nice meeting you at BG.

 

[Sydwyndr]

Bobby is not new to TSM he has been around TSM a long time just sitting out a few. The class has just gone a long way away from what it was intended.

Kip got the weights right in my opinion.

Dave I understand your point, however, change is unpopular most of the time. Times are way different now than they were years ago for which the class was developed and its intent

 

[BobbyBuick]

Sounds like you car is a perfect candidate minus turbo for the THS class
Its a whole lot more than that tranny,ac,heat,race seats,and thats being totally ignorant to what the rules are

 

[re-evaluating]

I still don't get this one maybe you guys down south get something out of this you don't see up north but OK. I don't have alky on my car at this point so no problem but maybe I need to see what you guys are gaining to make up for that 100 lbs.

+100 lbs for Alcohol injection






*Safety requirments per track tech
*Factory Stock Appearing External Body must have headlights/tailights (81-87 Regal)
*FSA glass windows
*One 3 bolt turbo up to 71.5mm inducer/103mm exducer in factory stock location (No V-band downpipes)
*No Nitrous Oxide injection
*Iron heads must be production "8445" heads
*Stock suspension /mounting points (no wheelie bars)
*Any Exhaust must exit behind firewall
*Wastegate can be open to atmosphere
*Gasoline fuel only
*Alcohol Injection +100 lbs
*70mm Throttle body/cast intake manifold
*Tires - 15" wheel Front must be 3.5" wide footprint. Rear tires up to 29.5" x 10.5"(Slick), 29.5" x 12.5" DOT (ET-Street), or up to 295 series (Drag radial)
*Any GM automatic transmission
*Any GM differential, Dana 60, or Ford 9"

MAIN RULE:*** All rules subject to change due to fairness ***


Ultimate Goal
-The 71 turbo would limit the overall power potential to keep class ET close
-The 109 weights would improve 109 longevity
-Stage rules would allow more cars to join in with minimal changes
-Allows for many different combos to be competitive

See my edit in your quote.

 

[quickt]

Guess I will throw it out there. 3800 series 2 or 3 run at 109 aluminum head weight? Still 4 bolts per cylinder and Iron head. 3650 for an engine that is limited to 234" is pretty painful. Its still a production Iron head engine to boot. Anyone have Issue with this?

 

[re-evaluating]

Guess I will throw it out there. 3800 series 2 or 3 run at 109 aluminum head weight? Still 4 bolts per cylinder and Iron head. 3650 for an engine that is limited to 234" is pretty painful. Its still a production Iron head engine to boot. Anyone have Issue with this?

How do the heads compare to Champion or TA heads in flow?

 

[V6RACER]

Guess I will throw it out there. 3800 series 2 or 3 run at 109 aluminum head weight? Still 4 bolts per cylinder and Iron head. 3650 for an engine that is limited to 234" is pretty painful. Its still a production Iron head engine to boot. Anyone have Issue with this?

Not enough info on that engine combo Lonnie, as you race we can make adjustments.

 

[Sydwyndr]

JW told me that the wipers and horn have to stay on the car to keep the street in it.
Btw, nice meeting you at BG.

Same here Ronnie . I would say the "*Factory Stock Appearing External Body must have headlights/tailights (81-87 Regal)
*FSA glass windows" rule would keep the street in it as you call it. But what you can't see on the inside at 130+ mph doesnt make or break a street car. You bringin the Banana down to NC??