XIM COP, BB COP, distributer, what works best

turbobitt

Well-Known Member
Think of making an upgrade but afraid to make the leap into uncharted territory. My stock coil and module have taken me in the 8's without issues but don't want to find the find out the limitation while at the track. I really want to go with Cal's XIM COP but haven't really hear any success stories. Any feedback ?
Allan G.


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kidglok

Balls Deep
Think of making an upgrade but afraid to make the leap into uncharted territory. My stock coil and module have taken me in the 8's without issues but don't want to find the find out the limitation while at the track. I really want to go with Cal's XIM COP but haven't really hear any success stories. Any feedback ?
Allan G.


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Allan I would just go with bobs tr6, plug and play and your done.

If you like I have a spare I can send you if u want to try it out.


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turbobitt

Well-Known Member
Allan I would just go with bobs tr6, plug and play and your done.

If you like I have a spare I can send you if u want to try it out.


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Why do you have a spare if it works so good ? :p
 

kidglok

Balls Deep
I sold it so some whining jerky boy customer..:D
Lol back on topic!

All things considered (price,reliability,plug and play, power output) It is IMO one of the best upgrades for our cars.

I had it on caspers tester at full tilt and it was starting to melt the gap extenders, which are almost 3/4 of an inch wide.


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we4Mateo

Double you eee what?
I agree that the TR6 is a great upgrade even for a stock car. ^^^^that's impressive with the gap extenders. I knew it threw a good spark but wow!
 

we4Mateo

Double you eee what?
I did burn up one coil pack already; a Silverado 4.3L one. But that's after 20k miles and probably 50+ passes. I think it was a fluke anyway, but $60 and I'm back on the road. 30psi, .040 gap, and lean cruise is smooth as silk even at 17:1 AFR.
 

Mike E

Mr. Badwrench
I really want to go with Cal's XIM COP but haven't really hear any success stories. Any feedback ?
Ther were quite a few TSO cars at BG that had the XFI COP setup on them. Don Cruz went 180mph with it. I'm pretty sure the Gary Harmon set the stock style head record at 8.04 with it also.

I like the distributor because it's what I know and it's proven reliable, but it was hard to pick it over the COP setup.
 

turbobitt

Well-Known Member
Ther were quite a few TSO cars at BG that had the XFI COP setup on them. Don Cruz went 180mph with it. I'm pretty sure the Gary Harmon set the stock style head record at 8.04 with it also.

I like the distributor because it's what I know and it's proven reliable, but it was hard to pick it over the COP setup.
This is good feedback. Would like to know more abut 8 second and faster cars with COP

Allan G.
 

lazaris

Active Member
One nice thing about coil on plug over a distributor is you eliminate the rotor phasing issues associated with large changes in timing.
 

rag231

Well-Known Member
Any feedback on the comparison of serviceability and reliability? I probably have 4 MSD distributors and 10 sets of the Moroso blue 10mm wires ( cheap and there is still a great supply out there) vs. those still using stock coil packs ( I know of 2 7 second cars still running stock coil packs) vs. the COP ( able to go to local auto store and pick up a set of LS1 wires or something when needed), vs the Danny Bee belt driven distributor setup. I am about to purchase an XFI setup and need this feedback as well.
 

HighPSI

Moderator
Staff member
This is good feedback. Would like to know more abut 8 second and faster cars with COP

Allan G.
Brad Tennyson, George Thompson, Steve Pitts, and Manny can be added to the list.

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turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
What you really need to ask yourself is what is the benefits of an inductive ignition vs a capacitive discharge ignition system? Factory C3I and COP are both inductive while the distributor and spark box is capacitive (CDI). Inductive has long duration spark CDI has short but very high energy spark.

Stock C3I: Inductive system
Pro's:
1. Cheap you already own it
2. Factory look
3. Wastespark system generally produces higher spark energy than other inductive style ignitions

Cons:
1. No adjust ability of dwell timing
2. Factory dwell setting pointless after 6500 rpm
3. Timing issues with factory ign module over 6250
4. Igntion module only counts to 3 not 1-6 since coil fires once every 360*
5. Does not work well with two steps

COP
Pro's:
1. Looks cool
2. Adjustable dwell settings
3. Coil only has to fire once every 720*
4. Excellent low RPM emissions

Con's:
1. Expense
2. Complicated install and set up
3. Coils ability to fully saturate at higher rpm and short dwell times.
4. More susceptible to electronic noise
5. All timing and ignition is at the mercy of the computer there are no mechanical limits
6. Ability to service and to find and replace parts
7. Coil life

Distributor CDI system:
Pro's
1. Well proven
2. Super reliable
3. VERY high spark energy much higher than anything an inductive system can produce
4. Easy to service and maintain
5. Simplest of all systems.
6. Excellent for high RPM high cyl pressure applications

Cons:
1. Short duration spark (dwell) Which on a high RPM forced induction engine I really dont see as a con as the dwell time at 7000 rpm is pretty short even for an inductive setup. Once you light the fire why does the candle to need to burn longer?
2. Difficult to run AC set up on a Buick

IMO I honestly feel if you want the most reliable easy to use proven system to go fast you cant beat a distributor and CDI box like a MSD 7al Crane Hi6 etc. I have seen no where that it has been shown that an inductive set up is better or makes any more power. Even though racer x has one and has gone x-mph doesn't mean it is a better system. Many have gone fast with a 109 block but few would argue its better than a Stage 2!
 

SAMBALLS1

Active Member
What has more discharge power cop or distributor? U mentioned distributor has more than inductive. .

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turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
The distributor just delivers the spark. The spark energy comes from the spark box and coil. Most aftermarket spark boxes are CDI, MSD, Mallory, Accel, Crane etc. Even the most basic box like a MSD 6a will put out more spark energy than a COP setup.
 

kidglok

Balls Deep
What you really need to ask yourself is what is the benefits of an inductive ignition vs a capacitive discharge ignition system? Factory C3I and COP are both inductive while the distributor and spark box is capacitive (CDI). Inductive has long duration spark CDI has short but very high energy spark.

Stock C3I: Inductive system
Pro's:
1. Cheap you already own it
2. Factory look
3. Wastespark system generally produces higher spark energy than other inductive style ignitions

Cons:
1. No adjust ability of dwell timing
2. Factory dwell setting pointless after 6500 rpm
3. Timing issues with factory ign module over 6250
4. Igntion module only counts to 3 not 1-6 since coil fires once every 360*
5. Does not work well with two steps

COP
Pro's:
1. Looks cool
2. Adjustable dwell settings
3. Coil only has to fire once every 720*
4. Excellent low RPM emissions

Con's:
1. Expense
2. Complicated install and set up
3. Coils ability to fully saturate at higher rpm and short dwell times.
4. More susceptible to electronic noise
5. All timing and ignition is at the mercy of the computer there are no mechanical limits
6. Ability to service and to find and replace parts
7. Coil life

Distributor CDI system:
Pro's
1. Well proven
2. Super reliable
3. VERY high spark energy much higher than anything an inductive system can produce
4. Easy to service and maintain
5. Simplest of all systems.
6. Excellent for high RPM high cyl pressure applications

Cons:
1. Short duration spark (dwell) Which on a high RPM forced induction engine I really dont see as a con as the dwell time at 7000 rpm is pretty short even for an inductive setup. Once you light the fire why does the candle to need to burn longer?
2. Difficult to run AC set up on a Buick

IMO I honestly feel if you want the most reliable easy to use proven system to go fast you cant beat a distributor and CDI box like a MSD 7al Crane Hi6 etc. I have seen no where that it has been shown that an inductive set up is better or makes any more power. Even though racer x has one and has gone x-mph doesn't mean it is a better system. Many have gone fast with a 109 block but few would argue its better than a Stage 2!

great info, this thread should be a sticky
 

turbobitt

Well-Known Member
The distributor just delivers the spark. The spark energy comes from the spark box and coil. Most aftermarket spark boxes are CDI, MSD, Mallory, Accel, Crane etc. Even the most basic box like a MSD 6a will put out more spark energy than a COP setup.
Most of the CDI will have about 400+ primary voltage going to the coil vs. battery voltage.
Allan G.
 

turbobitt

Well-Known Member
The more I think about it I'm surprised the COP set-ups haven't adapted CDI concept of charging the coils. I wonder why ?
Allan G.
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
An inductive system cant saturate the coil as much as a capacitive system can therefore will ultimately have more spark energy at the plug. The COP would need a capactive box for each coil and then I dont think you can take advantage of the prolonged burn with a capacitor which is an all of nothing once released. The benefit of an inductive system is the longer burn.

I havent looked at this info in awhile. I believe there have been some improvements in LSx coil tech. Also, the Holley/electromotive wastespark setups can produce some pretty good spark energy and have a longer burn cycle than a CDI box. Electromotive has claimed for years that they have the end all ignition system and they are the ones that designed the C3I for GM.
 
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