Why won't a wireless router work without an external modem?

[Buick From Hell]

Wife got me a Presario 2100 laptop for xmas---the idea is for me to bring it (and me) into the living room to do my computing, and make me appear more sociable!

Today my stepson and I bought a Microsoft MN-700 wireless-G router, and promptly found out we're supposed to have an external DSL modem w/ethernet plugs to hook up for wireless internet use. Well, I have an old INTERNAL DSL modem...I figure no biggie, I'll just use it without the modem until I can swap my internal for an external modem, I got plenty I can do 'networked' before I need the internet hooked up...

But, no matter what we tried, the computers won't connect to each other! The laptop (which is already wireless) CAN see the desktop, but can't access any files. The desktop (which is wired to the router) can't even browse the network, it acts like it's hooked up to NOTHING...

We took it back, explained the problem to the sales guy, he said he THOUGHT we should at least be able to connect the computers...so he suggested we trade the Microsoft for a Linksys to try.

Wel, the first thing the software does is checks my internet connection, and then tells me I'm not connected (even though I am)--then exits the setup and won't even configure! We tried manually configuring it, no good...

both computers can access the router thru it's IP address...
with the laptop, we can ping the router, but not the desktop...
and pinging ANYthing with the desktop results in nothing...all TCP/IP addresses & settings are correct, and we've even tried several manual changes, no good...

Are we doing something stupid?? Or will these routers not work without an external modem? And if so, WHY NOT?? Is a "simple" wireless connection too much to ask?

As it stands, I'll have to wait a week or so for a new modem, PLUS, I'm running old "CAP" DSL, and I'll have to change to "DMT" (???) thru my ISP, which could could leave me without internet service anywhere from 2 hours to 2 weeks...<sigh>

ANY help would be appreciated!!

 

[tjthorson]

OK, so, I need more info.

You have some sort of old proprietary DSL modem card in the desktop, which is hooked to the phone line, and up until now, was the only one using the DSL connection?

You also have a separate ethernet card in the desktop, which is plugged in to the 4 port switch on the back of the G-wireless router?

How is that ethernet card configured? Did you configure it at all?

What was that card plugged into before you got the G-router, or is it new?

You should easily be able to share the desktop and laptoip files and printers. What operating systems are we dealing with on both - I assume the laptop is XP. If so, and the desktop is 9x, you will need to load the old ipx/spx/netbios/netbeui stuff on the xp box to get it friendly with the 9x. Get me that info, and we can move on.

 

[SPOT MY 6]

Which model Linksys do you have now? Or do you still have the Microsoft unit?

What OS's are both machines? I am assuming the new laptop is XP?

Make sure the built-in Windows XP ICF (Internet Connection Firewall) is disabled. Microsoft file and print sharing will not work properly if it is on.

In your IP information, are your subnet masks the same? I think by default Linksys uses a 192.168.1.1 (it may be 192.168.2.1, I cant remember) address with 255.255.255.0 as the SM. Make sure the laptop and desktop have this SM

Make sure both machines are in the same workgroup. If you can ping the machines, but cant access shared files, it is probably a workgroup issue. You can check the workgroup name by right-clicking My Computer | Properties | Computer Name tab | Change. Check the workgroup name and make sure they are the same. You may want to change it to something that only you will know since you are now using a wireless network.

Originally posted by Buick From Hell
The laptop (which is already wireless) CAN see the desktop, but can't access any files.

What do you mean it can "see" the desktop? Are you using My Network Places and browsing the network that way?

Originally posted by Buick From Hell
Wel, the first thing the software does is checks my internet connection, and then tells me I'm not connected (even though I am)--then exits the setup and won't even configure! We tried manually configuring it, no good...

You said "even though I am" connected, but you said earlier that you dont have your external modem. How are you connecting this unit to the internet? Did you try configuring it with the wired (desktop) pluged into the WAN (internet) port on the router? This should "trick" the modem into thinking that you are connected. (This may require a crossover cable).

Originally posted by Buick From Hell
both computers can access the router thru it's IP address...
with the laptop, we can ping the router, but not the desktop...
and pinging ANYthing with the desktop results in nothing

What happens when you ping the router? If you can connect to it, you have to be able to ping it.

 

[SPOT MY 6]

A few more suggestions...

Note your computer names and IP address. Lets say for example that the desktop is named "desktop1" with an IP address of 192.168.1.2 and the laptop is named "laptop1" with an IP address of 192.168.1.3.

Create a shared folder on the desktop called "share".

On your laptop, click on Start | Run, then type in:
\\desktop1\share
then click "OK".

If it doesnt work try typing in:
\\192.168.1.2\share
then click "OK".

What happens?

 

[striker_29]

Very good suggestions so far Kev, as you can see we need a little more info. If you don't have everything just right (subnet masks, etc) on both ends, you will have flaky problems. Sounds like you are very close. Did you statically assign the ip info, or is the router dynamically assigning this for you? Your close man!

 

[Buick From Hell]

Thanks for the help guys! I'll try to give you guys some more info...

Desktop modem is an IntelPro DSL/2100 PPP, internal. A service tech explained I'm currently using "CAP" technology, and I'll need to switch to "DMT" technology to be able to use a compatible external modem.

Desktop is running winME, laptop XPhome..

Ethernet card is a Realtek RTL8139(A). Card has been in one of Anthony's (my stepson) computers. It hasn't been configured(?) other than installing it!

At this moment:
desktop's IP address is 192.168.1.2
laptops IP address 192.168.1.3
(both are DHCP "auto assigned")
ethernet card: 206.71.71.97
Router address: 192.168.1.1
All subnet masks are the same (255.255.255.0)

Workgroup name is MSHOME on both computers.

The router's "Active IP table" shows both computers are connected.

We've tried manually assigned IP,s manually changing the router's channel & configed both computers to make sure everything matches...we've reset the router several times and started from scratch, we've used 'networking wizard' on both computers...

whatever we try, results are always the same:
1- the router sees the desktop AND the laptop...
2- the laptop sees the router, and from the router (I'm assuming) it sees the desktop is connected...
3- the desktop sees NOTHING!

At this moment, we're leaning towards a funky ethernet card, even though it was working fine in Ant's computer! (the motherboard blew about a month ago) We've tried hardwiring the 2 computers using a homemade crossover cable Ant made, but the desktop ethernet card won't respond--Ant thinks he may have wired the cable wrong, but I'm not so sure...I'm headed for work to borrow the a cable & an ethernet card from one of my work computers and see what happens!

 

[SPOT MY 6]

Originally posted by Buick From Hell
desktop's IP address is 192.168.1.2
laptops IP address 192.168.1.3
(both are DHCP "auto assigned")
ethernet card: 206.71.71.97
Router address: 192.168.1.1

Is the ethernet card referring to your Realtec card? If so, the ethernet card's IP address has to be 192.168.1.x. Try using a static (manual) IP address for this address and use something like 192.168.1.10.

 

[striker_29]

Yeah whatever that 206 address is doesn't jive. Make it like the others.

 

[wiked87gn]

make sure you use the links setup software, install it on the desktop and perform a set up of the links router and dsl modem , if you dont do this the desktop wont see your laptop or anything else, i did the links sys, for a friend and it went smooth, i did have to play with the channels to make a connection but it worked perfect, i also found out this wireless systems dont work very good and that any kind of electrical interference makes them flimpsy, for example they operate on 2.4ghz, if you have a handset phone on the same frequency close to the routher it will cause problems any kind of wires running close to the routher will cause the signal to be lost, the computer i was trying to install was 30 feet away and it was having problems , i moved it to the living room close to the routher and problem solved. good luck.

 

[Buick From Hell]

First of all, THANKS to all you guys!

Second--as for using the linksys software, it won't run without the computer being connected to an external modem! (not sure why)

third, and most important--I think we've narrowed the problem down to the desktop itself is messed up! We couldn't even hardwire it to the laptop, even after changing the ethernet card & crossover cable!

I've been threatening to un-install winME ever since I put it in 3 years ago, and I did! Only took 4 hours to un-install, had a bazillion error messages, missing files, etc...computer runs like greased lightning now!

we're going to try networking right now, hopefully this works!

 

[Buick From Hell]

Well--

NOW, both computers can ping the router AND each other, but no matter what I try, the desktop refuses to browse the network, and the laptop can't see the desktop on the network.

Ever since removing ME, during bootup I've gotten error messages about several bad .vxd files in the System.ini folder, and I'm guessing one or more of those files may be part of the problem. We tried to install XP pro corporate before, AND after uninstalling ME, and it won't install (failed to IP initialize?) Anyway, Anthony is going to copy my hardrive to his computer for backup, then we're going to reformat the thing and start over.

Computers must hate me, I've never experienced the pleasure of "plug-n-play"! No matter how simple the change or upgrade, it NEVER works, and it always takes 3 or 4 days to fix!

 

[striker_29]

Yeah Kevin, trying to upgrade an Os (especially when changing file systems) is always asking for trouble. Those vxd errors you are getting, are corrupt network files and are probably the root of your problems. Not only would I format the drive, I would blow away the partitions and repartition with ntfs. That will likely solve everything, pm or e me if you need some more help. Good luck!