Why use a distributor?

[dr_frankenstein]

Yes Im supercharged. I believe that you bought your manifold from me last year. Are you building a dragster with the stage 2 in it??? Send me some pics and info. Maybe start another thread!!! Sorry for Hi-jack!! Mike

Sweet! Looks like were the odd ones with an Iron Lung. I Sent PM as to not hi-jack anymore.

A.j.

 

[Mike Licht]

So we're still talking about the stock waste spark system.

What are peoples experience trying to use a 2 step with the FAST system in the waste spark configuration. Does it still lose sync? Doesn't the FAST system have rev control of some sort?

What about the Motec in waste spark configuration? Same story?

I did not say anything about waste spark, but since you brought it up :tongue: IMO waste spark in and of itself has NO impact on HP. Buck pretty much proved this with the Indy Car program which was wastespark (if there was something better they would have used it, they had the budget). A wastespark system will not stay synced in rev limit (2 step) so a properly designed LS1 coil conversion would need to eliminate WS if it was to include a 2 step. There is about 2 degrees effective timing advance when going to an improved ignition system (distributor oe otherwise) and that is where the power gain comes from.
Mike
Donnie, for what its worth I agree with you for the most part in this thread

Mike

 

[BlownV6]

Guys, Your talking about technology that is nearly 25 years old. The first time I ever heard of the "BLACK BOX" it was at indy. Look at how far it has come since then!! They did have the budget but the tech was on the leading edge of what we have now. Mike

 

[Alky V6]

I did not say anything about waste spark, but since you brought it up :tongue: IMO waste spark in and of itself has NO impact on HP. Buck pretty much proved this with the Indy Car program which was wastespark (if there was something better they would have used it, they had the budget). A wastespark system will not stay synced in rev limit (2 step) so a properly designed LS1 coil conversion would need to eliminate WS if it was to include a 2 step. There is about 2 degrees effective timing advance when going to an improved ignition system (distributor oe otherwise) and that is where the power gain comes from.
Mike
Donnie, for what its worth I agree with you for the most part in this thread

Mike

I fully agree with you on the point that w/s does not create more HP. And I never stated that it did.
I will repeat though, that if you replace a low powered system, one that is causing incomplete combustion and/or is causing missing, with a system that is more powerful and able to assure complete combustion, that you will undoubtably see more HP. NO MATTER WHAT STYLE THE NEW IGNITION SYSTEM IS!

A spark is a spark is a spark!

Now Mike. You say that 'A' waste spark will not stay synced in a 2 step. Are you saying that 'ALL' available waste spark systems on the market will not stay synced in a 2 step? Or are you saying, any waste spark that is based on, or tied to the OE style and/or design will not stay synced? Or are you saying that any waste spark system tied to a MSD two step box won't stay synced?

 

[Alky V6]

Guys, Your talking about technology that is nearly 25 years old. The first time I ever heard of the "BLACK BOX" it was at indy. Look at how far it has come since then!! They did have the budget but the tech was on the leading edge of what we have now. Mike

Could you imagine going up to the Buick engineers back then and suggesting that they could do better by going back to a distributor?

They would have given that person a swift kick in the balls!!! :redface:

 

[Alky V6]

Mike. I re-read your post. So the problem is with the ignition module. The FAST system uses the stock ignition module, does it not?

 

[Alky V6]

It's nice to see two blower guys getting together. :tongue:

 

[BlownV6]

Could you imagine going up to the Buick engineers back then and suggesting that they could do better by going back to a distributor?

They would have given that person a swift kick in the balls!!! :redface:

I was just pointing out that ,that was the begining of the ELECTRONIC age.
Before that there were no controllable ignitions!! Look at what is made today!! Its come along way in that time. Im not saying the distributor is the best way, its just works extreemly well in most situations. Miike

 

[Mike Licht]

While there is no question that a distributor works well, so does a carburator. In fact in most cases it works just as good a FI for a single purpose application. Maybe we should switch? The problem with sync has to do witih the module mostly. Is there some waste spark system that will work, maybe I do not know of one but there could be.
Mike

 

[Alky V6]

I was just pointing out that ,that was the begining of the ELECTRONIC age.
Before that there were no controllable ignitions!! Look at what is made today!! Its come along way in that time. Im not saying the distributor is the best way, its just works extreemly well in most situations. Miike

I can't help but notice the bias towards distributors. It gives me the impression that you've tested other systems and found the distributor the only way to go. Are you an expert of all the other options that are out there? How many other different aftermarket ignition systems have you actually tested? Or are you on the distributor band wagon only because you use one and have no intention of testing any other one, whether it be an improvement or not?

 

[Alky V6]

While there is no question that a distributor works well, so does a carburator. In fact in most cases it works just as good a FI for a single purpose application. Maybe we should switch? The problem with sync has to do witih the module mostly. Is there some waste spark system that will work, maybe I do not know of one but there could be.
Mike

There is Mike. You guys must have blinders on.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

It's nice to see two blower guys getting together. :tongue:

Mwa HA HA HA!

Were coming to get you!

LOL

A.j.

 

[odell4o8]

look at sprint cars. most of them are chevy, engines with hilborn injection[really old[ run on alky of course. and they all have a magneto [really old] and they make a lot of horse power, mike maybe you should look at a magneto for your dragster,
one other thing donnie your wise answer to why i switched to a distributor, yes we tried to find out why i was losing coil packs. even replaced the complete wiring harness from firewall forward ,and ever sensor and i got advice from some pretty smart people on how to fix my problem,end is i spent a lot of money and time before i switched. yes im happy with the antique distributor and dont want to go back, like cal, billy anderson , dan[dls] and lot of other buick racers when they run something better i will be interested in using same, thanks for info,

 

[S2V6RACER]

I can't help but notice the bias towards distributors. It gives me the impression that you've tested other systems and found the distributor the only way to go. Are you an expert of all the other options that are out there? How many other different aftermarket ignition systems have you actually tested? Or are you on the distributor band wagon only because you use one and have no intention of testing any other one, whether it be an improvement or not?

Don, I have all the stuff here to go COP with the BS3. Honestly, I don't feel that I will gain with the switch. I don't think anybody is biased toward the distributor, but since we all have them and they work the juice isn't worth the squeeze if you get my point.

 

[1BADTT]

so does a carburator. In fact in most cases it works just as good a FI for a single purpose application.

This reminds me of an article on a mag that I read some time ago where John Meaney EFIed a 815 ci motor only to prove that EFI could run with Carbs in terms of performance. To my surprise he can came up short by 20 hp to the same engine with a carb. I expected more hp from the EFI setup.
Found the article:
::: DRO ::: Tech Section - EFI Elephant: 815ci, 1760hp and No Carbs - 6/23/05

 

[Alky V6]

I'm burning pure methanol. I'm running a large duration, high overlap cam. I'm running one simple aftermarket EMS waste spark system. No magneto! No boxes on top of boxes! I'd have to say there is a better system. You should just say you're not willing to stray due to peer pressure and try something different.

So far 4.2 hp/cu. in. and counting.

 

[BlownV6]

I'm burning pure methanol. I'm running a large duration, high overlap cam. I'm running one simple aftermarket EMS waste spark system. No magneto! No boxes on top of boxes! I'd have to say there is a better system. You should just say you're not willing to stray due to peer pressure and try something different.

So far 4.2 hp/cu. in. and counting.

Donnie, Listen you are my kind of guy!! You are an inovator and someone who is not afraid to step and stay out of the box. I have nothing against any other type of ignition!!! I use a distributor because it works and because
Im not smart enough to use anything else. I to run methanol at over 50# of boost and use mechanical injection with a standard MSD ignition ( again because Im to stupid to be able to use an EFI type of control). I also use an odd-fire crank which completely complicates the whole combo.
Given this info Im all ears from anyone that cares to reply, I dont know of anyother type of ignition available to me for this combo. MSD box and a distributor is the only type of ignition that I have used in the past 20 or so years. If there is something better I would defenetly consider it. Mike

 

[lazaris]

There is Mike. You guys must have blinders on.

What is it?

 

[Alky V6]

Donnie, Listen you are my kind of guy!! You are an inovator and someone who is not afraid to step and stay out of the box. I have nothing against any other type of ignition!!! I use a distributor because it works and because
Im not smart enough to use anything else. I to run methanol at over 50# of boost and use mechanical injection with a standard MSD ignition ( again because Im to stupid to be able to use an EFI type of control). I also use an odd-fire crank which completely complicates the whole combo.
Given this info Im all ears from anyone that cares to reply, I dont know of anyother type of ignition available to me for this combo. MSD box and a distributor is the only type of ignition that I have used in the past 20 or so years. If there is something better I would defenetly consider it. Mike

Mike! Re-read the thread! Concentrate on the posts that speeder contributed and his setup. He's doing odd-fire also.

 

[Alky V6]

What is it?

I give up.

Re-read the thread. Concentrate on speeder's posts.