Why does everybody rag on the powermaster?

[Gn-Krazzie]

I don't think there was anything really wrong with my original 'powermasher' it just ran low Of fluid on the passenger side chamber and the pump was whinning i wonder why ? Maybe it was running dry...lol . I put a new one in anyway

 

[wyk3d]

i didnt get a pretty warning light when my unit failed.......all i had was a need for a change in underwear when the truck almost hit me.

Dan

 

[nitrousmike175]

Originally posted by TurboDave
Ya see Berman. Even among the TR owners it's terribly misunderstood, and maligned constantly.
Too expensive this
will always fail that
etc. etc.

The truth of the matter is, if it's properly maintained (very damn few are) it'll give you years of great brake performance. The only part on the system that does fail what seems like every 4-5 years is the accumulator, and that's a relatively inexpensive part to replace and can be done at home in less than a couple of minutes.
However, once the brake light starts flashing (the first warning of an impending accumulator failure), I'm sorry to say there are a great many TR owners that either choose to ignore the warning sign or just flat don't know what it means. I can't even remember anymore the number of guys I've heard say "my brake light has been flashing for the last few weeks, and now the pedal is getting hard, what's going on?" OMG, your just now worrying about it? No wonder such failures seem so common. Let the accumulator fail completely, and it will very very quickly turn into a massive Powermaster failure that will be expensive. 99% of the total Powermaster failures that do occur are a direct result of an accumulator failure that wasn't taken care of in a timely manner.
On rare occasions, the pressure switch may fail (I've had one switch failure between two cars in the last 15 years).
I do have to replace an accumulator about every 4-6 years, which is no real big deal.

I personally love the performance that I get from the PM! And despite what some people would like you to believe it will hold a LOT more boost on the line than the vacuum conversions will.
You'll see that as a common complaint on a lot of threads. (Why can't I hold as much boost against the brakes now that I'm on a vacuum system??). Easy answer, line pressure! You can only make so much with vacuum brakes, period.

Don't worry about your PM. Keep it healthy, and it will give you many many years of trouble free service. Both my GN's (86 and 87) are still on their original Powermasters.
Abuse or neglect it, and it will fail you, as it has many others.
Granted, the present owners "may not" have abused it, but likely the previous owner(s) did.

GM doesn't have a part number for them anymore and if you buy an aftermarket one your looking at 130 to 160 just for that part only. A whole vaccum system is only 115.00 and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

 

[Red Regal T]

Even GM sh!tcanned them. Ask any TTA owner!

 

[NCC1701]

powermonster VS vacuum again!!!

It always kills me when I see these post. Everyone who keeps the powermonster loves to tell you where you can get a lifetime warrenty for a rebuilt one, so you won't have to pay to replace it when it goes out. I just don't understand that. You are already planning on it's next failure.
Do vacuum brakes fail? Yes they do, but I am sure it's a Hell of a lot less then the powermonster. I agree with Red Regal T, even GM got rid of it. TTA owners are lucky in this regard
I gave the powermonster 2 chances in my GN. After the first failure, I figured it was just due to age. But the replacement failed in less than a year. I don't care what anyone says. Trying to stop your 3500 lbs car with no power brakes is a real eye opener. Going fast is is great, But stopping when and where you want is much more important.
I converted to vacuum and funny thing is, I am not at all worried about when are my brakes are going to fail. My original powermaster is wrapped up in a bag, and stuffed in my storage locker. IMO. that is the best place for it.
The only way i would keep a powermonster in a Turboregal, is if it was in a museum and never going to be driven again.
How about all you guys still using the powermonster put some kind of warning on your car that says,"Brakes will fail without warning".
And for the remark about the warning light, Maybe my bulb was burned out, but neither time my brakes went out with the powermaster, did I get a warning.

 

[dhauser]

I've had three TRs with their original powermasters, and none ever gave me a problem. I've driven one to Detroit and back (from KC) twice, with no ill effects. But, I do think there are inherent problems with these units, and I would surely convert mine to vacuum should it ever fail on me.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by nitrousmike175


GM doesn't have a part number for them anymore and if you buy an aftermarket one your looking at 130 to 160 just for that part only. A whole vaccum system is only 115.00 and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

Never have purchased mine from GM (too much money), they're quite reasonable (`$60-70) at many of our vendors that carry them.

I can see that this is one of those threads that can turn into a real pissin contest pretty fast. I've said my piece, and will bow out.
(Powermaster lover )

 

[Intercooler]

You guys just need to get faster so you can use parachutes to stop your car

 

[nitrousmike175]

Originally posted by Intercooler
You guys just need to get faster so you can use parachutes to stop your car

Works for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Spoolinup]

Whats the verdict on the Hank Terry piece?

Its priced right and after having a stiff pedal for 3 seconds and then getting back the pressure I want to do something when I get my car back from painting. I already did the accumulator bowl and the aerospace big brake upgrade with stainless lines. And I like my face and teeth.

Any bad stories after getting Hanks piece?

 

[Berman]

Originally posted by TurboDave
Ya see Berman. Even among the TR owners it's terribly misunderstood, and maligned constantly.
Too expensive this
will always fail that
etc. etc.

The truth of the matter is, if it's properly maintained (very damn few are) it'll give you years of great brake performance. The only part on the system that does fail what seems like every 4-5 years is the accumulator, and that's a relatively inexpensive part to replace and can be done at home in less than a couple of minutes.
However, once the brake light starts flashing (the first warning of an impending accumulator failure), I'm sorry to say there are a great many TR owners that either choose to ignore the warning sign or just flat don't know what it means. I can't even remember anymore the number of guys I've heard say "my brake light has been flashing for the last few weeks, and now the pedal is getting hard, what's going on?" OMG, your just now worrying about it? No wonder such failures seem so common. Let the accumulator fail completely, and it will very very quickly turn into a massive Powermaster failure that will be expensive. 99% of the total Powermaster failures that do occur are a direct result of an accumulator failure that wasn't taken care of in a timely manner.
On rare occasions, the pressure switch may fail (I've had one switch failure between two cars in the last 15 years).
I do have to replace an accumulator about every 4-6 years, which is no real big deal.

I personally love the performance that I get from the PM! And despite what some people would like you to believe it will hold a LOT more boost on the line than the vacuum conversions will.
You'll see that as a common complaint on a lot of threads. (Why can't I hold as much boost against the brakes now that I'm on a vacuum system??). Easy answer, line pressure! You can only make so much with vacuum brakes, period.

Don't worry about your PM. Keep it healthy, and it will give you many many years of trouble free service. Both my GN's (86 and 87) are still on their original Powermasters.
Abuse or neglect it, and it will fail you, as it has many others.
Granted, the present owners "may not" have abused it, but likely the previous owner(s) did.

Finally, someone up my alley! Everything you said is what was explained to me by the guy who I bought my car from (and built the car). Actually he rebuilt the powermaster himself instead of buying one. I think that was a wise decision, because it sounds like my brakes work a helluva lot better than a lot of guys with the remanufactured units. Like I said, I swear they work better than the brakes on my Trans Am. (that says a lot, because LS1 brakes are very very good)

 

[GNVAIR]

The truth of the matter is, if it's properly maintained (very damn few are) it'll give you years of great brake performance. The only part on the system that does fail what seems like every 4-5 years is the accumulator, and that's a relatively inexpensive part to replace and can be done at home in less than a couple of minutes.
However, once the brake light starts flashing (the first warning of an impending accumulator failure), I'm sorry to say there are a great many TR owners that either choose to ignore the warning sign or just flat don't know what it means. I can't even remember anymore the number of guys I've heard say "my brake light has been flashing for the last few weeks, and now the pedal is getting hard, what's going on?" OMG, your just now worrying about it? No wonder such failures seem so common. Let the accumulator fail completely, and it will very very quickly turn into a massive Powermaster failure that will be expensive. 99% of the total Powermaster failures that do occur are a direct result of an accumulator failure that wasn't taken care of in a timely manner.
On rare occasions, the pressure switch may fail (I've had one switch failure between two cars in the last 15 years).
I do have to replace an accumulator about every 4-6 years, which is no real big deal.

I personally love the performance that I get from the PM! And despite what some people would like you to believe it will hold a LOT more boost on the line than the vacuum conversions will.
You'll see that as a common complaint on a lot of threads. (Why can't I hold as much boost against the brakes now that I'm on a vacuum system??). Easy answer, line pressure! You can only make so much with vacuum brakes, period.

Don't worry about your PM. Keep it healthy, and it will give you many many years of trouble free service. Both my GN's (86 and 87) are still on their original Powermasters.
Abuse or neglect it, and it will fail you, as it has many others.
Granted, the present owners "may not" have abused it, but likely the previous owner(s) did.

Now thats a crock of s**t. Dave, I am not flaming you and I respect your opinin on many things, but this is one subject that I have to disagree on.
How do you properly maintain a Power Master? I guess you replace parts, thats how.
When mine went bad, the light came on for all of about 30 seconds and then it was done. I didnt have the luxury of driving around for a week with the light on. If the unit was so great, GM would still be using it. I also feel that if the unit was so great you wouldnt have to replace pieces of it every so many years. I have had my vacuum booster on my car for over 2 years. I pulled it from a junkyard for under $30. I have had no problems. Zero, zip, zilch.
If the rear brakes are adjusted properly I can hold 10+ pounds of boost on the line. I have the utmost confidence in vacuum. Heck, all of the manufacturers are still using them with the exception of a very few abs systems. We read way too many complaints on this board of Power Masters failing than we do of vacuum boosters failing. I dont recall the TTA guys complaining that their boosters keep going bad. To each his own. The only places a Power Master belongs are on a 100 point concourse car or in the recycling bin. I would rather worry about going fast than worry about whether the darn car is going to stop when I hit the brakes. I dont have that worry with the vacuum set up.

 

[John Larkin]

I respect Dave too but I need to stop the bleeding from the PM money pit. I disagree also. With some diligence, my plan is to achieve Lee's results in brake performance. It has to be able to be done. Are there any HD master cylinders with a larger piston that will bolt up to a brake booster to increase the supposed deficiency in line pressure? Anyone have any info on that?

 

[stickybones]

I don't understand all this stuff. Like Dave said, the only real problem I've had is the accumulator going bad after 5 or 6 years. If the PM was so bad and just dies unexpectantly, I'd think GM would be doing something about it. Imagine the lawsuits if someone gets punted by an 18 wheeler 'cause his brakes just "disappear". Come on, is the PM that undependable? Should I be afraid to drive my GN with it's 15 yr old PM system 'cause it's gonna go any time now without warning? Am I on borrowed time now?

 

[MeanBuicks]

Knocking on wood!

My original Powermaster has surpasssed 200,000 miles and is still going. The original pressure switch failed in 1990 before I knew of the recall & I have replaced the accumulator one time about 5-6 years ago. That's it.

(Dave, my brake light started flashing again many months ago. ) In the words of Gomer Pyle, "Shame! Shame! Shame!" Guess it's time for another accumulator.

 

[GNX]

There are always those that like to tempt fate. If you get punted by and 18 wheeler, you most likely won't be around to file a law suit. And as far as automakers and suppliers fixing things before law suits happen, what about Ford and Firestone? "Yes" the PM's will go without warning. Until you have them go out on you when you're trying to haul down from highway speeds in an emergency or just a normal slow down, you haven't lived.

And that's just BS, when anyone says that you weren't observant of the danger signs. (paraphrasing) It can happen without any lights, 20 second pumping of the system, etc. There are those of us with extensive automotive experience, even under racing "Baja" conditions, meaning we're not "beginners." Not anyone here is an expert in every area of automotive technology. Some of the best engine builders out there don't know #ick about braking. And some of the best suspension experts...yada yada...

It seems like over the years, most of the people who have switched over, by heeding others advice, are those who are more of the hill, roadcourse, global west, hotchkis, type of drivers; those who are more attuned to a non-dragstrip type of setup. They SEEM to use their brakes more often and are more aware of the importance of being able to stop when your life hangs in the balance with a curve looming ahead.

When Formula cars and Indy types use vacuum braking, there is no logical arguement that can be in favor of a short lived, in GM's manufacturing terms, questionable braking system. JMO

 

[Steve Wood]

If the PM allowed more braking power to the rear, then the car would spin out when standing on the brakes.

No doubt, when one has a properly working PM, it is works well. It is the times when it does not work that will convince you of the benefits of something that works a far greater percentage of the time.

In proper working condition, both work well. One just works a lot longer and causes less trauma if there is a problem.

Some have reported problems with rebuilt boosters (vacuum). I don't recall anyone having a problem with an oem booster from the "yard" but some of the rebuilts have not worked correctly.

I have no use whatsoever for the CArdone rebuilts as they still have the original pump/motors in them. Just waiting to get tired and fail.

If you want a PM, do your future safety a favor and buy a new pump/motor from Hank Terry. cover your bets a bit.

 

[Nick Micale]

It will be interesting to see this thread posted a couple years from now. By then, Hank Terry will have sold all his new pump/motors, the pressure switch from GM that now cost about $200 and the accumulator $150 will be ???, or maybe non-exsistent? And the "lifetime warranty" will go by the way of records and cassette tapes!

Then we will have to find another "great debate"?

For the "purists", I already have a shelf full of PM's so you can keep your car original!

 

[Steve Wood]

I am holding on to my two. They are going to be really valuable one of these days. Yeah, right.....

 

[tc86gn]

I would suggest a familiarzarion of where the emergency brake pedal is for all of us that are still running a powermaster.