Why does everybody rag on the powermaster?

Berman

New Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Why is the powermaster system so maligned? When completely rebuilt and set up correctly, it works *GREAT*. My new t-type has the best brake feel of any gm car I've driven, better than my ls1 TA. So what do people have against the powermaster system? Is it hard to fix? Parts break randomly?

How would you even set up vacuum brakes in a turbo car? one-way check valve and vacuum reserve canister?
 
they are expensive, break down a lot, i could never get a good break pedal out of mine and not to many people know about them. it seems like every mechanic i talk to about them think im talking about a hydroboost.
 
Probably because it has so many expensive pieces on it and when something goes wrong its tough to figure out what needs to be changed. Some people have also claimed that they've lost their brakes completely :eek: I know I'm gonna get flamed for this and people are gonna say I didn't install them correctly and so on, but I tried vacuum brakes once and while they were great on the street they sucked for holding boost at the line when racing so I switched back.

TTA's came with vacuum brakes and yes there is a one way check valve used.
 
price! expensive to repair when the powermater fails and it will! Vacuum system is way more reliable and WAY cheaper to fix when and IF if fails.
 
You will change your mind when you are standing on the brake pedal with both feet pushing so hard you are lifting yourself out of the seat trying to stop the car when the unit fails.

I've never had a problem with vac brakes. They seem to work well on all the TTA's!
 
Originally posted by TType85
You will change your mind when you are standing on the brake pedal with both feet pushing so hard you are lifting yourself out of the seat trying to stop the car when the unit fails.

Great.. Well my friend who I bought the car from completely rebuilt the powermaster unit, correctly. (he's a great mechanic). It will still fail in a few years, tho? Just great.. My junky GN that I traded to him already had vacuum brakes.
 
i have gone through 6 powermaster units in the past 4 years and i FINALLY found one that works for more than year (knock on wood!) yes they are extremely expensive but thank god i have a lifetime warranty on my unit...i can get them rebuilt for nothing from a local auto shop over here...so whenever my powermaster goes out (and trust me you WILL know if it goes out...you have to press as hard as you can just to stop the car and the brake light stays on 24/7) then i can just get it replaced with a rebuilt unit...
 
well a lot of guys on here know there stuff and have made the conversion....ive also talked a a few mechanics about it one a buddy of mine who has worked as a mechanic for GM for the last 15yrs....bottom line he says dump the powermater. I can honestly say i dont know hell of a lot about the system but as i ramble on here ill say again ive taked to a few people that know A LOT about these cars and this system....for the most part its a big thumbs up for vacuum brakes. anyway not sure if ive helped at all but thought id put my 2 cents in.
 
after rolling through an intersection at 35mph trying desperately to stop before almost dying by a large semi........i converted. Funny how a large truck coming at u at high speeds puts things in perspective. Vacuum system went in easilly for around 30 dollars and ive never had a problem with it at all. I can boost to around 7psi on the brakes which is more than enough for me and the booster holds enough for at least ONE stop should the system ever fail.

Dan
 
powermaster sucks

i have to agree .. i converted to vac brakes.. and i love it.... i feel much safer driving the car now......
 
Expensive...

A replacement is about $250, including core. A "good" replacement with a new motor from Hank Terry would be more. The "anti-lock" system used in 1987 was similar, but used much higher pressure in the hydraulic system, including pump and accumulator. I bet it's even more expensive, and harder to find parts for. My Powermaster has died, once. I heard the motor running, and the light came on and wouldn't go off. I got it into the carport just as it ceased to work, but I managed to avoid running throught the wall. It did take both feet to stop it, though. That's when I got the "rebuilt". If I were a little more proactive, I would get a motor from Hank, and a master cylinder rebuild kit, and.... But first I gotta fix the headliner, and adjust the windows, and-
 
I'm fairly new to the turbo cars but, the first thing i noticed was the stock setup is CRAP. The second is there expensive to repair. I'm installing a vacuum system this weekend or next week on my car.
 
Rebuilt cardone unit works great for about 200.00 U.S. Wasn't too hard to install and keeps the stocker resale value. I keep my old one to figure out whats wrong with it and rebuld it for future use. :)
 
Just the fear of inevitable brake failure was enough reason to convert my GN to vacuum brakes. Had a friend in town lose the brakes on his and that was enough for me. And my GN only had 10,000 miles on it when I did it. No regrets here! And vacuum brakes suck too! That's what they are supposed to do. LOL:D But at least they suck in a good way!
 
My problem is that I have three of them broken in a bin in my work bay...got vaccumm on the car now and will never turn back.
 
Originally posted by BuickGn Boosted
Just the fear of inevitable brake failure was enough reason to convert my GN to vacuum brakes. Had a friend in town lose the brakes on his and that was enough for me. And my GN only had 10,000 miles on it when I did it. No regrets here! And vacuum brakes suck too! That's what they are supposed to do. LOL:D But at least they suck in a good way!

Excellent post Mark.:D
 
Ya see Berman. Even among the TR owners it's terribly misunderstood, and maligned constantly.
Too expensive this
will always fail that
etc. etc.

The truth of the matter is, if it's properly maintained (very damn few are) it'll give you years of great brake performance. The only part on the system that does fail what seems like every 4-5 years is the accumulator, and that's a relatively inexpensive part to replace and can be done at home in less than a couple of minutes.
However, once the brake light starts flashing (the first warning of an impending accumulator failure), I'm sorry to say there are a great many TR owners that either choose to ignore the warning sign or just flat don't know what it means. I can't even remember anymore the number of guys I've heard say "my brake light has been flashing for the last few weeks, and now the pedal is getting hard, what's going on?" OMG, your just now worrying about it? No wonder such failures seem so common. Let the accumulator fail completely, and it will very very quickly turn into a massive Powermaster failure that will be expensive. 99% of the total Powermaster failures that do occur are a direct result of an accumulator failure that wasn't taken care of in a timely manner.
On rare occasions, the pressure switch may fail (I've had one switch failure between two cars in the last 15 years).
I do have to replace an accumulator about every 4-6 years, which is no real big deal.

I personally love the performance that I get from the PM! And despite what some people would like you to believe it will hold a LOT more boost on the line than the vacuum conversions will.
You'll see that as a common complaint on a lot of threads. (Why can't I hold as much boost against the brakes now that I'm on a vacuum system??). Easy answer, line pressure! You can only make so much with vacuum brakes, period.

Don't worry about your PM. Keep it healthy, and it will give you many many years of trouble free service. Both my GN's (86 and 87) are still on their original Powermasters.
Abuse or neglect it, and it will fail you, as it has many others.
Granted, the present owners "may not" have abused it, but likely the previous owner(s) did.
 
You said it yourself -

"When completely rebuilt and set up correctly, it works *GREAT*. "

When something goes, things can get ugly real quick.
 
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