What Cams Will Live In Our Engines?

[BASS]

Ok, so more likely than not, all of these wiped cam lobe problems arise when we change out the original cam, lifters, etc. The reason Im asking is because I have another low mileage motor I will be putting in my car, and was debating whether or not to change out the cam, springs, etc., but I guess I will not touch them. I plan on just using the car as daily driven but will be running mid 11's occasionally....

By the way, would replacing the springs on an original motor have anything to do with wiping out a lifter? The reason I ask is because on my last stock motor, I had my valve springs replaced (the ones that Kirban's sells), and after a while, the lifter got screwed up, and the pushrod got out of place and screwed up my motor (When I popped the valve cover open after this happened, everything was in place, just the pushrod got out of position due to the screwed up lifter)..this is course happened when I took the car to 150 )....

 

[Jerryl]

FYI only posting.
Lifter was purchased from Johns Performance who is unaware of the lifter manufacturer but believes the manufacturer to be the company who bought out "Johnson" (??) Som of you experts may look at the grinding pattern and know right away. I have no clue!

 

[Marc87GN]

FYI only posting.
Lifter was purchased from Johns Performance who is unaware of the lifter manufacturer but believes the manufacturer to be the company who bought out "Johnson" (??) Som of you experts may look at the grinding pattern and know right away. I have no clue!

I'm running these in my new block and your post scared the poop out of me at first. They seem to be very quiet. On a rare instance, when it was 37 degrees out, I could hear them slightly if I were listening for them, but otherwise, they are just doing their job.

 

[Bryan Weber]

Some very good info on this subject. One thing that we have noticed over the years is that engine idle time seems to have an effect on the cam life span. Since much of the lifter lube comes from oil that is thrown off the rods, the amount of oil the cam and lifters receive at idle is greatly reduced compared to when it is at cruise rpm. This is the reason the cam break in rpm is higher than idle rpm. Spring pressures needed for the increased lift, engine rpm, and aggressive cam profiles, is another agravator of the problem and certainly will reduce the life of the whole valvetrain. This is why most of OE's installed low lift, long duration, and lazy profiled cams with low spring pressure to make them last. We have had very few cam flat cam failures and I feel this is due to them being setup and installed properly, proper break in, using quality products (WRE cams and GM lifters) (sorry. I couldn't resist the plug), and educating customers to be concious of idle time.

My 2 cents.

 

[VadersV6]

Wow thats lame. Buick should have said in the owners manual- Dont let the engine idle or it will blow up.

 

[simple]

i too have been following this thread (some good info)
so heres a quick question....
is this problem only related to flat tappet cams or rollers as well?

 

[Ormand]

The solution? Put a reverse taper on that particular lobe

The stock cam has alternate tapers, so the cam is kind of "self centering". Is the #3 exhaust lobe "odd", such that there are five lobes tapered one way, and seven the other? I've read about the "wrong" lifter bore many times, and I have a hard time imagining it, and I've never seen a picture. I know that one advantage of using the "sawed off" V8, from both Chevy and Buick, was that the engine plants could use the same tooling to make both engines. The lifters bores are bored by a machine with a "gang" of tools, not just one bit, and the spacing between bores would be set up for the "gang". Seems like the guys in the pre-production runs at the engine plant would have noticed that the tooling for the V8 didn't work on the V6? Anybody got pictures to help make this clear? Maybe we could have them in one of the permanent threads at the top of the board.

 

[VadersV6]

I dont get why this just couldnt be fixed by moving the location of that lobe in one direction or the other?????They must refuse to work with anything but off the shelf cam stock instead of making something new. So lame. The solution is simple. Hey cam people out there! Move that ****ing lobe so it doesnt wipe out!!!!!!!

 

[87GN_70GS]

Is the #3 exhaust lobe "odd", such that there are five lobes tapered one way

Yes.

Seems like the guys in the pre-production runs at the engine plant would have noticed that the tooling for the V8 didn't work on the V6?

Good question. It's not clear whether the error in transferring over the dimensions from V8 to V6 was in the drawings for the block or cam blank.

 

[TurboTR]

We've posted this sort of thing many times, so I got lazy and just copied and pasted it again

The lobe taper and lobe offset on a flat tappet MUST be checked. On the Buick, the odd bank and the even bank are offset and tapered in opposite directions, except the #3 exh lobe is offset and tapered the same as the even bank. Lately I've seen more that were tapered wrong than were right, lol. Even after the cam mfgr was informed. Sometimes they're all tapered the same direction, sometimes the wrong lobe is tapered opposite, etc. Since the lobe taper is on the oprder of 1 to 1.5 thousandths, you may need a micrometer to check it unless you are really good and patient with a high quality set of calipers

TurboTR

 

[ThikStik]

Im posting with no research, just info from the top of my head. But I read a few years back where the EPA has limited phosphors in motor oil. Maybe phosphers are more important to a cam than other engine parts. Still, it would seem other brand motors would share failures if this were the case.

BTW-I know for sure that bronze is being banned by EPA in trans bushings.

 

[PhilM]

Well i put the hft cam in my car already with about 135# on the seat and a not so mild custom grind from comp. Everyone say's ill wipe it but i have some hope... im just going to break it in with light springs and ensure everything's moving right b4 i put the monsters in there. Problem is i'd need at least a 160#'er on a comparable roller just to counter act the increased lifter mass ( a lot!). I cannot go any wider diameter on a stock iron and the behives are only made in so many sizes and weights... I use to run a 212 hft cam in the old engine with no problems at all... think it had about 5000 miles on the engine b4 i ripped it all apart. I really dont see the point of doing roller for that or anything less in duration... ?!? If you break it in properly, your oiling is adequate, and your bores arent binding anywhere, you shouldn't have a problem. I cannot speak for the really high mileage engines running that type of profile.

Like I said in the other post, if i wipe it ill let everyone know... If i dont wipe it, well then i will prove a lot of folks wrong and ill be a happy camper. I'm going to be keeping an eye on the oil filters every week or 2... should prolly buy em in bulk or something.



Phil

 

[Larry Clontz]

Where do I get the speedpro 204/214 cam for $60?

 

[turbofrank]

Summit

 

[VadersV6]

Like I said in the other post, It would be nice if someone offered a cam with an offset #3 exhaust lobe to make up for blocks with a core shift problem. Wouldnt be a big deal.

 

[Larry Clontz]

Frank,
Do you reccomend this cam and what is the part number at summit. I cant find it.

 

[ThikStik]

I dont believe that it is core shift , seems like really bad blocks that eat cams would also have other problems if it were. Buick night shift maybe. I also stand by my guns that oils are worse now. Lower in phosphors and zinc...thanks EPA.

 

[bison]

I replaced a stock cam in my friends car about 6 mos. ago. It was wiping the #3 exhaust as they usually do. Stock springs and all. Engine had 65k on it when i replaced it. The extra noise had become noticeable about 500 miles earlier. I suspected a lobe going away and i was right. I took a lunati 210-205 that was run in another engine that had a nice #3 lifter and lobe and ran it with the lifters on the lobes they were originally on with no problems and the 210-205 has about 10k miles on it at this point. These blocks were machined like crap. Thats our whole problem. If an aftermarket cam and much stronger springs were run in this block it would have **** the bed even quicker than the stocker did with the stock springs, with little doubt. Fast ramp lobes are not the best for longevity on the small contact patch we have to deal with. We can specualte about cam hardness and all the possible flaws that cam vendors could or used to make with these cam blanks but it doesnt mean dick if the machining in the block is all over the place. Its the same reason these engines are so uncanny with oil pressure. Ive seen big variances with the same exact clearances and even two engines run with the same cover that came off an engine that had great oil pressure, but only what would be considered marginal on another. I run ductile rollers in all of my engines at this point. I dont need the aggravation of sending metal through a new engine only to have to tear it down and clean it again. Too little room for error with a flat tappet. GM had a break in procedure that they performed before the engines were put in the cars. I sure as hell dont think that most people even know about it or even come close to duplicating it. Use a high pressure additve (GM EOS) and follow the advise about springs in the earlier posts. Follow the instructons with the cam. Thats all you can do.

 

[87GN_70GS]

Once again, during engine assembly, make sure #3 exh lifter spins (no grease, light oil, like ATF) with the cam spun by hand. Then during/after break-in, with the engine idling and valve cover off, make sure the #3 exh pushrod is spinning like all the others.

 

[ThikStik]

Once again, during engine assembly, make sure #3 exh lifter spins (no grease, light oil, like ATF) with the cam spun by hand. Then during/after break-in, with the engine idling and valve cover off, make sure the #3 exh pushrod is spinning like all the others.

Spinning like the others on the other side of the engine, to be exact.