Warning for Hot Air Ported Throttle Body Owners

[esinger]

Several years ago I bought a ported throttle body from this gentleman.

http://www.throttlebodys.com/Hotair Buick.htm

He did great work, however he did not use loctite on the butterfly screws on mine. Today one of the screws worked free and mangled the compressor of my TA-63 turbo.

If you have one of these throttle bodies, I would STRONGLY suggest you check to make sure they are tight and not easily loosened. If they aren't tight, take them out and use some loctite and put them back in to make sure they don't work their way free.

Luckily there's no evidence that my motor was harmed, just ate a lot of compressor wheel that was turned to dust.

I'm glad I didn't sell my old TA-49 turbo, looks like I'll switch to it while I find someone to replace the compressor wheel on the TA-63. Pat (SloGN) and Clint (Sydwyndr) took pictures of the damage, so maybe they'll post pictures the carnage.

 

[esinger]

And to my smart ass friends (Pat, Clint and Richard), having an intercooler on the car would not have "Filtered" the screw, it would have made it's way straight to the intake

 

[esinger]

Here's the carnage.

 

[TurboBob]

eww.......

 

[esinger]

eww.......

Thanks for the help tweaking the ISAC Bob. Just another day in what I like to call "As the Turbo Spins" drama.

 

[charlief1]

Pat called me just after it happend Eric. Sorry to hear you had a failure and if you need someone to re-do the turbo PM me and I think I can help you with the right person. Now get that intake off and find those damn screws.

 

[esinger]

Now get that intake off and find those damn screws.

Luckily the screw never made it's way passed the turbo, just bounced between the compressor blades and the butterfly.

 

[stevemon]

I just sent esinger a message stating that if he'll send me the turbo I'll cover the repair and shipping. FYI for other Hotair people, you should know that those screws are not loctited from the factory. Most HA TBs I have worked on the screws are not very tight but I've never had one with a screw missing. So the bottom line is I didn't loctite the screw. You should all check those screw though. I bet you'll find they aren't very tight and none are loctited. Why that screw came out is a mystery to me considering how many I've had that weren't tight.

 

[Grumpy]

I just sent esinger a message stating that if he'll send me the turbo I'll cover the repair and shipping. FYI for other Hotair people, you should know that those screws are not loctited from the factory. Most HA TBs I have worked on the screws are not very tight but I've never had one with a screw missing. So the bottom line is I didn't loctite the screw. You should all check those screw though. I bet you'll find they aren't very tight and none are loctited. Why that screw came out is a mystery to me considering how many I've had that weren't tight.

There ya go. Steve is goin beyond his call of duty.. big ATTABOY for him !!! Buddy had a Acufab wiz bang TB on his BIGG $$$$$ Buick.. Lost a screw.. BUT he found it !!! well after it tried to go threw the cyl ate the piston an the new Champion alum head. We have done a lot of TBs over the years an never heard of a problem till this one. After that we peen the screws. They are not coming out easy.

 

[stevemon]

Thanks Dan. Never had a hotair TB screw do that before but will be peening the screws from now on.

 

[esinger]

Hi Steve, thanks for the offer!

I'm a little confused about this loctite issue with the butterfly screws. I now have two competing stories. I live really close to Richard Clark's shop so I took the car over to his shop when I discovered the noise coming from the engine. The car drove fine and after getting there we listened around for the source of the noise. We pinpointed the noise was from the turbo and I took the throttle body off and the screw dropped out and the carnage was revealed. The variation of the story begins when Richard told me that the factory does use loctite on the butterfly screws. He didn't have any hot air throttle bodies sitting on his shelves, but quite a few intercooled throttle bodies. Since the screw that came loose was pretty mangled up by the compressor. I took off one from a stock IC throttle body and it wasn't easy to take off at all.

Could it be that GM used loctite on the 86-87 throttle bodies and not the 84-85's?

Thanks again Steve, this of course wasn't something I was on the lookout for. But for those that come across this thread, check those butterfly screws periodically (Stock or Otherwise). It's takes almost no amount of time to do it and can save a big headache.

Eric

 

[stevemon]

Hi Eric, Thanks for the reply and additional information. FWIW, I've often saved butterfly screws from Buick TBs and have well over 100 here and from all appearances, none have any thread locking compound on them. If someone has a way to test for that I'd be glad to send them a pkg of them. Also, I've been doing TB rebuilds and machining for quite some time and over the years have done repeat rebuilds for a few customers and the loctite I applied of their screws was readily visible when I took the screws out. (I use Loctite 291 which is a green, wicking type)

My thinking is that no Buick TB screw is loctited from the factory. They all come out with about half the needed torque of the Mitsubishi TB screws while all the 1st Gen Neon TBs are loctited and SRT4 TB screws are peened.

 

[esinger]

Yesterday was the first time in my life I'd ever took a screw out of a throttle body's butterfly. So I’m going to have to plead complete ignorance on this topic. Where Richard received his information? I have no idea. I only know that the remaining screw in my throttle body was pretty darn easy to remove compared to the stock 86-87 throttle body that Richard let me grab the screws from.

Steve, I would not hesitate to recommend your work to anyone. Obviously the screw rattled it's way loose somehow. I had zero expectations in you or anyone repairing my turbo for free. You're definitely a standup guy for the offer!

 

[stevemon]

Eric it's the least I can do. The issue should not have come up and it was no fault of yours so I expect you to send the turbo here (at your convenience) My good friend has a turbocharger rebuilding shop in Okc and I'll take it by and do what part of the repair that I'm capable of and he'll put in a new kit & balance it.

 

[turbonut85]

Sucks that this happened....although, it is a good tidbit for everyone to read and for everyone to check...hadn't even given it a thought until reading this...I have one of Steve's tb's and I have to say the workmanship is top notch....and his input here, and offer of making this right says alot about him IMHO. Kudos to him. ---Keith

 

[esinger]

Can't agree with you more Keith.

Steve, I'll finish taking it off the car soon and get it out to you. Thanks a million!

 

[jdsgnx]

There ya go. Steve is goin beyond his call of duty.. big ATTABOY for him !!! Buddy had a Acufab wiz bang TB on his BIGG $$$$$ Buick.. Lost a screw.. BUT he found it !!! well after it tried to go threw the cyl ate the piston an the new Champion alum head. We have done a lot of TBs over the years an never heard of a problem till this one. After that we peen the screws. They are not coming out easy.

Eric it's the least I can do. The issue should not have come up and it was no fault of yours so I expect you to send the turbo here (at your convenience) My good friend has a turbocharger rebuilding shop in Okc and I'll take it by and do what part of the repair that I'm capable of and he'll put in a new kit & balance it.

Now THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!

JD

 

[rmar]

Now THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!

JD

Wow.......x2

 

[turbo6x2]

Eric you can't beat that for taking care of the problem, glad it will be resolved and you can save that Turbo.

 

[luisturbog]

Here's the carnage.

i'm curious to see a broader picture of this turbo. I've never seen a hot air turbo with that big of a turbine.