ok we have a 87 GN and we want to go low 12's. we cant find any proven recipes to do it. what can we do to accomplish this. we want it on pump gas and stock turbo/long block. it currently has 3in terry houston DP no cat with 3in dual torque tech turbo back exhaust. also has injectors (that we dont know what they are and want to replace) has IC pipes and kenny bell cold air kit (with box around filter removed) and a chip (also which we dont know the maker). trans is rebuild as of this past summer with a stock or near stock stall. car has untouched rear end and will be on M/T or BFG drag radial. stock suspension minus poly bushings front and rear. koni shocks, lowering springs, and hotchkis sway bars. want really only bolt on mods possible porting intake/TB. anyonehave ideas of what we can do? the car went 13.5's last year without the DP or TT exhaust, and was on all season tires. so basically 1.5-2 seconds at most is what we want off. thanks in advance
want low 12's with bolt on only
- Thread starter Dom87SS
- Start date
It's not going to come over night but is possible.
Learn the car and tune it. Repeat this step often.
fuel pump and hotwire kit if you don't already have.
adjustable fuel pressure regulator
Alky kit
good chips
M/T drag radials
23 or so # of boost
alot of fine tunning
Also need a good scan tool or data logger
Egt is nice to have
Launch as hard as you can
Learn the car and tune it. Repeat this step often.
fuel pump and hotwire kit if you don't already have.
adjustable fuel pressure regulator
Alky kit
good chips
M/T drag radials
23 or so # of boost
alot of fine tunning
Also need a good scan tool or data logger
Egt is nice to have
Launch as hard as you can
Here's a recipe on a stock turbo,
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140195
Lots of reading... lots of searching.. lots of tuning.. lots of seat time.. a little luck.. be amazed at what you can do.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140195
Lots of reading... lots of searching.. lots of tuning.. lots of seat time.. a little luck.. be amazed at what you can do.
What do you mean no proven receipes???
There's tons of them on this board and about as many ways to do it as there are shirts to wear.
Alky and stock turbo
Bigger turbo/convertor and polished heads.
Port stock elbow or 3" DP
*
I've run 7.9's in the 1/8 which is a low to mid 12 in the 1/4 on my street trim setup at 18# boost thru the muffs with a TE61 turbo and pure 93 pump gas and no alky, no octane boosters.
There's tons of them on this board and about as many ways to do it as there are shirts to wear.
Alky and stock turbo
Bigger turbo/convertor and polished heads.
Port stock elbow or 3" DP
*
I've run 7.9's in the 1/8 which is a low to mid 12 in the 1/4 on my street trim setup at 18# boost thru the muffs with a TE61 turbo and pure 93 pump gas and no alky, no octane boosters.
What's up Dom. Who's car is this? Winter season is pretty boring, so I'm always willing to give a hand!
My car ran 12.74 on stock turbo, DP, unopened motor with the exception of replacing worn out valve springs, stock TC. No ported heads, intake, turbo, DP etc...
Mods were adjustable fuel, boost, 340/hotwire pump, 009 injectors, Dutt neck on stock intercooler, intake, gutted cat, through full exhaust. The only thing that wouldn't agree with your combo is that I was running 100 octane on a chip of the same octane. I only did that because I got the injectors and chip through a trade. You should easily get that with alky.
I was on a 26" Nitto with a 1.80 60', bone stock 17 year old suspension parts. Only launched on 2lbs of boost, and didn't get full throttle until about 30' out.
What was his 60' on those runs?
My car ran 12.74 on stock turbo, DP, unopened motor with the exception of replacing worn out valve springs, stock TC. No ported heads, intake, turbo, DP etc...
Mods were adjustable fuel, boost, 340/hotwire pump, 009 injectors, Dutt neck on stock intercooler, intake, gutted cat, through full exhaust. The only thing that wouldn't agree with your combo is that I was running 100 octane on a chip of the same octane. I only did that because I got the injectors and chip through a trade. You should easily get that with alky.
I was on a 26" Nitto with a 1.80 60', bone stock 17 year old suspension parts. Only launched on 2lbs of boost, and didn't get full throttle until about 30' out.
What was his 60' on those runs?
hey man, have you tried lookin for those recipes on www.gnttype.org ? you may wanna check there. Also, there is other good stuff up there to look at. Keep trying, these cars are kinda tricky, but with a little patience, 12's will come REAL soon!
On pump gas, alky is the way to go. Drive to track, crank boost to 21 psi or so (you DID say stock turbo, right) and cut her loose. TRACTION will be the biggest thing...but the BFG DRs should help. Just don't expect a 1.7 flat short time on your first launch. It'll take practice, but with that gear (alky too if you wanna run only pump gas), traction will be the biggest thing that could cost you the low low 12s. Good luck and keep us posted.
Man there are so many way you can achive that, we have few unopened motors that have gone into mid 11's on pump gas/alky and slicks so that could be your low 12 sec car on street tires.
Fuel pump, adj fuel reg, hot wire, T- plus, 50# inj, 63 turbo, 3' down pipe, SMC alky, Art carr 9" and good valve springs. Also the basic k&N, chip and dump.
HTH
Prasad
Fuel pump, adj fuel reg, hot wire, T- plus, 50# inj, 63 turbo, 3' down pipe, SMC alky, Art carr 9" and good valve springs. Also the basic k&N, chip and dump.
HTH
Prasad
Forget all the little turbos, go to TE61,63 or the GT67. The GT67 is only $700 from Red Armstrong.
TE61, alky, MT drag radials, decent converter....11.1 1.52 60'. That is a 12sec run...and then you have an extra 1.9 sec to pick your nose. All on an unopened stock block, no real tuning, just crank up the boost, and launch hard!! Stock suspension, real budget racing.
Drive to the track, run some low 11s, then drive home laughing. Street trim!
TE61, alky, MT drag radials, decent converter....11.1 1.52 60'. That is a 12sec run...and then you have an extra 1.9 sec to pick your nose. All on an unopened stock block, no real tuning, just crank up the boost, and launch hard!! Stock suspension, real budget racing.
Drive to the track, run some low 11s, then drive home laughing. Street trim!
...not sure if you want to "forget about little turbos" or not. I've run 11.50 at 118mph on a TA-49 with a stock motor, on 100-octane unleaded. 1.5X sixty-foot. The only things in the engine I've replaced are the valve springs and the timing chain. Heads have never been off.
The key is optimizing all of your bolt-on's and learning/tuning the car. You should EASILY get into the 12's solidly with a stock turbo, if you tune correctly. Any upgrade turbo (TA-49 or TE-44) will get you solidly into the 11's. All of this without ever pulling the heads.
If your car is primarily a street car, you may want to choose a TA-49/TE-44 over a bigger turbo (like the 63). Makes the car a lot more fun on the street.
Food for thought...
The key is optimizing all of your bolt-on's and learning/tuning the car. You should EASILY get into the 12's solidly with a stock turbo, if you tune correctly. Any upgrade turbo (TA-49 or TE-44) will get you solidly into the 11's. All of this without ever pulling the heads.
If your car is primarily a street car, you may want to choose a TA-49/TE-44 over a bigger turbo (like the 63). Makes the car a lot more fun on the street.
Food for thought...
Ever heard of overspinning a turbo dry? The floating bearing will spin so fast, it acts like a centrifugal pump, and fling out all the oil around the shaft. It can over come the oil pressure of the motor . Pushing a turbo to the limit, and beyond is silly, when for the same money, you could have bought a turbo to work in its designed range of performance. Read "turbochargers", by Hugh MacInnes, an HP book.
The floating bearing is a metal ring with two holes in it that spin at 1/2 shaft speed. It gets pressurized oil from the top outer side 2x per revolution, then into the center to lube the shaft, then out a port in the bottom of bearing to "fall" back to oil pan.
Why push a turbo just for bragging rights and risk failure? Sure it can be done for a little while, but eventually.......
. Pushing a turbo to the limit, and beyond is silly, when for the same money, you could have bought a turbo to work in its designed range of performance. Read "turbochargers", by Hugh MacInnes, an HP book. The floating bearing is a metal ring with two holes in it that spin at 1/2 shaft speed. It gets pressurized oil from the top outer side 2x per revolution, then into the center to lube the shaft, then out a port in the bottom of bearing to "fall" back to oil pan.
Why push a turbo just for bragging rights and risk failure? Sure it can be done for a little while, but eventually.......
Dom, whats going on? been awhile. Theres lots of proven combos out there. Tuning is the key..so if you got a scanmaster or some type of scan tool thats your first step. I like the idea of skippin the te44 and just goin bigger. No complaints about my te63! Need to find out what programming is on that chip-your chip can make a night and day difference in performance (meaning timing/boost). Give me a ring or stop by...we will get your buddy goin in the right direction.
this is my friend joes car. he got it 2 years ago. we are just starting to get to play with it. he has pleanty of money now to do the little thigns. he doesnt want a ultra fast car, just somethin really quick to beat up on the little junk boxes we have in our town. its just a pump gass street car that will rarely see the track. after the cold breaks ill see if he on to working on the car himself. if he ill let a couple of you guys know. if not we can atleast get around and bull**** for a while. ive talked to archie a bit, and he is willing to help where he can. dont really know any of you other guys, besides from chitown and some from GCNI, so it would be cool to meet up. as for you neil....where the hell have you been. and is that car gonna come out this year. ive seen it around, now i want to see it get down, on the street. we defiantly have to get in touch before spring. cause 05 is lookin to be a good race year. thanks guys again. hopefully we can get this GN owner cruisin the 12's with minimal work.
Originally posted by turbo2nr
Ever heard of overspinning a turbo dry? The floating bearing will spin so fast, it acts like a centrifugal pump, and fling out all the oil around the shaft. It can over come the oil pressure of the motor
Just curious, have you seen a stock GN turbo do that?. I've seen a bunch lose seals, some wear out the bushings in 100K miles, but none that I've seen have looked to suffer from lubrication problems. At even $700 a pop, you could buy about 5 used good stock ones for that money. Or buy most if not all the other stuff to get into the 12s.
cars are different but this is our setup
2.5" ATR exhaust, 3" downpipe
adjustable wastegate, fuel press. reg.
stock turbo
stock intercooler
stock unopened motor and trans.
red 93 chip
mt streets
104 octane
7.8 in the 1/8th untuned
shooting for 11's with the same setup different chip/tune
2.5" ATR exhaust, 3" downpipe
adjustable wastegate, fuel press. reg.
stock turbo
stock intercooler
stock unopened motor and trans.
red 93 chip
mt streets
104 octane
7.8 in the 1/8th untuned
shooting for 11's with the same setup different chip/tune
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