Turbo V6 Camaro

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
Sounds like you're on the right track (pun intended)!

I scan my WBO2 and MAF values during boost (when in PE/OL). The average % diff I see from commanded A/F and WB A/F is applied to corresponding MAF values from the scan. My VE table is bone stock, even with a fairly lumpy cam. I may decide to tune that separately, once everything else is dialed-in on the new setup, just for giggles.

If you copied over most of the SC table values, and started there, it's fairly simple. (Intense popped a handful of engines with their tune's back in the day.) Most top-swap cars I tuned without a SC variant (ex. 2000-02 Impala's/Monte's) ran solid doing that. The MAP is content maxxing at 100 kPa, and just monitoring the MAF/O2 for normal operation, and it gets simpler to just the MAF in PE.

AFC is a must-have for skewing MAF table down, but if you start running into the 511 g/s limit, you can change the Injector Flow Rate lower to shift that, and re-tune 5-10% at a time.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Sounds like you're on the right track (pun intended)!

I scan my WBO2 and MAF values during boost (when in PE/OL). The average % diff I see from commanded A/F and WB A/F is applied to corresponding MAF values from the scan. My VE table is bone stock, even with a fairly lumpy cam. I may decide to tune that separately, once everything else is dialed-in on the new setup, just for giggles.

If you copied over most of the SC table values, and started there, it's fairly simple. (Intense popped a handful of engines with their tune's back in the day.) Most top-swap cars I tuned without a SC variant (ex. 2000-02 Impala's/Monte's) ran solid doing that. The MAP is content maxxing at 100 kPa, and just monitoring the MAF/O2 for normal operation, and it gets simpler to just the MAF in PE.

AFC is a must-have for skewing MAF table down, but if you start running into the 511 g/s limit, you can change the Injector Flow Rate lower to shift that, and re-tune 5-10% at a time.
How are you going about logging only your PE % diff? That seems kinda similar to what I was trying to do except for zeroing out a bunch of tables to force the ECM into a state where it only really looks at the TPS and MAF. I think the idea was that other variables would throw the error off? Regardless,I didn't like that. lol It didn't seem to be doing what it was supposed to anyway.
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
I use a spreadsheet a buddy made that uses a lookup list for each segment of the MAF chart, and lays out the scan data to deal with.

Columns:
(from scan) Cmd A/F... WB A/F... MAF hz...
(calc) A/F % diff... avg for MAF chart 125hz increments...
(from tune) orig MAF Table
(calc) new MAF w/ % change applied
(optional) manual adjustment to new MAF table

and a chart to see original & new, so you can make sure it is smooth
 

Jon Early

Active Member
I slightly underestimated how poorly I wired the old wideband. I didn't need to cut any wires, but it was still a big enough pain to undo that I'm going to add another connector to the mix just in case I ever need to do this again! That being said, I did not finish the install last night. I was too tired and impatient to be wiring.

Here's some earlier progress though. The new gauge is super slim and therefore couldn't be mounted in my deep custom pods. Good thing I have a box of scrap metal.
New WB02 1.jpg

New WB02 2.jpg

New WB02 3.jpg

New WB02 4.jpg
New WB02 5.jpg

New WB02 6.jpg

New WB02 7.jpg

Now I'm bothered by the terribly mis-matched gauges. lol I chose the new WB02 strategically though. There's a matching boost controller I'll buy some day to replace the Autometer. For now I'm just going to keep the stuff that works!
 

Jon Early

Active Member
I think that the AEM X-series boost controller is going to look really cool in place of the Autometer gauge, but I'm a bit too cheap to throw that much money down on something that the car doesn't absolutely need right now. Hence, still having stock wheels with cheap tires! The manual boost controller and gauge work just fine for now. I think a better use of my time and money would be tying a fuel pressure sensor into the scan gauge, and installing a Pro 5.0 shifter, and then probably a 2-step. I want to bang shift this car really bad, but I really need some shifter stops at the very least.
New wideband.jpg
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Paint the bezel black and forget about it for a while.
Looks good to me.
Haha to be honest, I'm not that motivated. I'm really happy that I don't need to be in the dash again for a while.

I can't remember if this was mentioned before, but my maf is maxing out pretty early. I can only rev the car up to about 4k at wot before needing to shift due to leaning out.
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11,500 hz is the max frequency that my stock ECM is able to read, so I'm going to toss in an AFC with the dip switches set to 80% output. Then I will multiply my MAF chart by 1.953. At least I think that's right! I'm just following ZZP's instructions.
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dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
They have some wacky calculation recommended (odd that it says double the values), but as long as the 20% you're skewing is added to the table to start, careful tuning will help you get it there. Not a direct swap, but AFC is absolutely necessary for any 3800 MAF making decent power.

(I built a simple 100mm/4in MAF tube for a stock sensor on my s/c setup to have similar room, and it works... until you start hitting 511 g/s in the table, anyway. You'll see this as well, when the upper range of your table maxxes out. Then, you'll have to trick the tune by skewing your injector flow rate lower, and retuning the MAF again.... That table runs these tunes, but at least it's one-stop-shopping for adjustments, kinda like carb jetting.)
 

Jon Early

Active Member
They have some wacky calculation recommended (odd that it says double the values), but as long as the 20% you're skewing is added to the table to start, careful tuning will help you get it there. Not a direct swap, but AFC is absolutely necessary for any 3800 MAF making decent power.

(I built a simple 100mm/4in MAF tube for a stock sensor on my s/c setup to have similar room, and it works... until you start hitting 511 g/s in the table, anyway. You'll see this as well, when the upper range of your table maxxes out. Then, you'll have to trick the tune by skewing your injector flow rate lower, and retuning the MAF again.... That table runs these tunes, but at least it's one-stop-shopping for adjustments, kinda like carb jetting.)
Yeah, the calculation doesn't make sense to me either. If I'm lowering the frequency by 20% wouldn't I just up my airflow by the same amount? I'm not sure what I'm missing here.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
I got tired of this car limping around unable to be trusted. This tuning stuff is not newbie friendly, and I only seemed to make the car worse. I called Brian Turner at Dyno Tune Motorsports. He's done some work for the 3800 guys over on The Chicago Garage with excellent reviews. Once he sends me the base file, I'm going to disconnect the AFC, load the tune it into my ECM, and schedule a dyno appointment. One of my buddies agreed to tow the car up there for me. Enough screwing around!
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
Dyno Brian has worked on some big stuff. These aren't easy as you get more installed and away from basic tweaks. The benefits of having a PCM that can be fully tuned to accommodate them also means it gets complicated real quick.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
That's no joke. I did some poking around, and found pictures of his shop. I remember watching videos of Tim King's 8 second Firebird on his dyno among other high powered 3800 cars back when I was in high school! It's going to feel quite surreal whenever I make it up there to see it in person. I'm also nervous though. My luck is bad enough that I'll glaze up another clutch, break an oil pump gear, or something else totally stupid while it's there. If not, I hope that I specced things out well enough to make a respectable amount of power. Fingers crossed. I just want all of this to be over so that I don't have to think about the possibilities anymore!
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Brian did an excellent job on the remote tune! The car runs better than it ever has since tearing apart for the turbo conversion. I just ordered poly trans and engine mounts. I may not do the engine mounts, but the wimpy rubber single-studded trans mount has to go. Even though it's brand new, it has tons of flex in it, and I'm worried that it might be causing some false knock and significant torque loss. As of now, I'm scheduled for a dyno tune on the 26th. I have my fingers crossed that all goes according to plan!
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Poly trans mount was a fun installation. It's really not meant for T5 cars, but I made it work. I also have new oil and spark plugs in the car. It's feeling better than it ever has just in time for the big day. Tomorrow is either going to be the end of this car or a new beginning. lol
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I hope we don't blow something up.
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
Great runs! Guessing that first one was a little rich (nevermind, I mixed up boost and A/F charts without labels)? What's inside the engine now? Fairly stock?

Pretty similar to my '98 GTP's runs when it had a stock L36 block, XP cam, and Gen V M90 at about 15psi on 104 unleaded. You can have a lot of fun with the N/A block, as long as you keep the tune happy.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Great runs! Guessing that first one was a little rich? What's inside the engine now? Fairly stock?

Pretty similar to my '98 GTP's runs when it had a stock L36 block, XP cam, and Gen V M90 at about 15psi on 104 unleaded. You can have a lot of fun with the N/A block, as long as you keep the tune happy.
Thanks! It could be a rich condition or just lower boost. We played with a lot of stuff.

I'm serious about the stock L36 long block. It's bone stock down to the 158k mile valve springs, head gaskets, and head bolts! It's all just boost and fuel system. I would like to do a full valve train upgrade eventually, but I'm really impressed with how it turned out as-is.
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
Ah, overlooked the "longblock" portion of your comment before. You could get by with some 1.9 rockers and 90# LS6 springs to give it a little more, and last a long time without much concern. If you wind up digging into it, that's a different story.
 
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