Turbo V6 Camaro

Jon Early

Active Member
The car is finally back in one piece after two years of construction! It feels kinda weird having a center console again
Center console installed 4-20.jpg

Does anybody in here have experience with HP Tuners? I'm having a hell of a time setting up my wide band in the scanner. Thanks in advance!
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
I've always ran mine thru the (deleted) EGR 5V signal, unless I'm running my extra one for tuning other people's cars.
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
Ahh... Ya, there's a couple of different equations, depending on the brand of WB electronics. I like the PLX, just 0-5v for 10-20:1 AFR, so (V+5)x2 if memory serves me... Innovate is something else.

Keep up the progress.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
When I compare this manual to those of supported AEM wide bands I start to read between the lines a little. These directions are complicated, and I don't a very clear cut answer on whether I'm supposed to see a normal 0-5V when I'm using the white wire. Othe manuals like the 30-4110 are pretty clear cut. It seems that mine was made specifically for the AEM standalone ECU.
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
I chose the manual based on the AEM gauge unit that looked like yours.

The white (+) and brown (-) seem to be what should give the 0-5V analog output. They have the calculation as AFR = 1.567(V) + 4.825 for this E85 unit.

I'd just keep tinkering until you see it telling you 3-3.5V at idle, if your setup is already supposedly running correctly for E85 at ~9.8:1. You could also try richening it up some to look for a reaction in the reading at idle, in case you're super lean (never know, and can't hurt to add fuel for a bit).
 

Jon Early

Active Member
I chose the manual based on the AEM gauge unit that looked like yours.

The white (+) and brown (-) seem to be what should give the 0-5V analog output. They have the calculation as AFR = 1.567(V) + 4.825 for this E85 unit.

I'd just keep tinkering until you see it telling you 3-3.5V at idle, if your setup is already supposedly running correctly for E85 at ~9.8:1. You could also try richening it up some to look for a reaction in the reading at idle, in case you're super lean (never know, and can't hurt to add fuel for a bit).
That's the trouble though. I don't have any way to change anything about the wideband. It just is what it is. If the output to HPT is not a linear 0-5V from peg to peg then there's nothing HP can do to fix that. I'll experiment a little more until ZZP and AEM return my emails because I'm not certain with how the brown wire is supposed to be hooked. Perhaps it will be correct if its not grounded. If I hook up the brown and white to + and - on the volt meter and get a normal linear sweep then I probably have the wrong type of WB for HPT.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
AH HA! My signal - was NOT in fact grounded. The issue should be resolved once I get this all back together and try again.
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
Good luck! I know ZZP has been swamped with all the spare time purchases people like me are making. (got email 2wks ago saying my Stattama turbo pipes for the T67 were in line for fabricating, since they're made to order... then, they auto-replied about the delays when I ordered Morel lifters & a pushrod tool yesterday)

Can't wait to see what progress the A/F work nets you.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Sounds like we have the same idea of trying to make the best out of out forced time off! Good luck!

I have been scared to push my car any further. The tune seems okay, but my boost regulation is not. I decided to dive in and figure out why. I found two issues.
Wastegate test.jpg

Supplying 40 psi into the bottom port with an 8 psi spring results in the valve not opening and air pressure coming out both the top port and the exhaust. I must have bad seals. I'll dissect it tonight.

Issue two excites me. Actually attaching the wastegate properly should help with boost response pretty dramatically!
Wastegate flange leak.jpg
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Lucky me! Nothing was wrong with the wastegate. It just didn't have an educated rebuilder. When I replaced the spring a year or so ago. I didn't realize that Precision put lugs between the actuator halves. I squeezed it all back together without the lugs meshing so the diaphragm was not sealing against anything.
Wastegate rebuild 4-20.jpg


Wastegate rebuilt 4-20.jpg

Then I went for a long spirited drive. I am so excited to go to the track and lay down some numbers! I definitely need to upgrade this shifter though. Over shifting is really easy to do with the stock unit.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
HP Tuners is not for the faint of heart. I have a support ticket in for errors while trying to write to the ECM. Of course by that point the software has already erased the current tune, so the car won't start anymore. I freaked the hell out the first time fearing that I bricked the ECM, but unplugging it for a few minutes and plugging it back in somehow revives the previous tune. I've done this about five times now while trying the Beta version, unplugging fuses to other modules on the serial data line, and some other voodoo with no luck. This sucks because the tune that was written for me by a previously mentioned company is not even a very good guess. The timing tables would be pretty hot even for an NA 3800 let alone a boosted one. I'm probably parking the car until I can figure that out. I don't want to blow it up yet.
Writing failure 5-2-20.png
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
Yikes. That's always a scary time when reading/writing potentially "bricks" the PCM, with very limited steps that /may/ save it. The DHP PowrTuner had similar concerns, but I guess HPT is dealing with new releases that may have hiccups? Hope they get it squared away before I eventually buy one. I generally liked using it to compare 3800 files, or help a buddy tune his LS1 car.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Yeah, I think there are still a lot of issues with the MPVI2. The pro version is also brand new within the last few months. Although I'm still glad I got new stuff because I want a chance at HP supporting it down the road, I think the MPVI1 would have eliminated a lot of my newbie headaches. I submitted a support ticket, so I have high hopes that they'll get back to me soon.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Here's a big positive update. I figured out the cal writing error! I didn't realize that this car had a class 2 data signal running between a few modules including the ABS. Since I deleted ABS, the signal between the PCM and the diagnostic port was broken. Luckily, I still had the module sitting around, so I just plugged it back in really quick to write the tune. I also had to pull the radio fuse. Since the radio never fully turns off with the key on, it generates a lot of noise. It's kind of a strange process to get this thing tuned, but at least I know how!

A not entirely positive, but certainly not negative update is that my janky intake pipe finally fell apart. I originally had a long accordion tube running from the engine bay to the bumper for cool air. I have since realized that this is not really necessary, but I liked the GN style plumbing I made. I don't want to suck dirt into the turbo and engine, but I don't feel like going through all the effort of building a custom pipe again when my entire plumbing system needs to be modified again soon anyway... I'm going to keep you guessing why on that.

Good bye pretty intake..
1 5-3-20.jpg


And hello, UGLY!
Temporary filter 4.jpg
Temporary filter 2.jpg
:unsure: I'm not a fan, but it actually works a lot better anyway. No more floppy filter! It also made the turbo a lot noisier, so I'm definitely keeping the next intake short. I'm sure with that long length of 3" tube there was a pretty considerable amount of vacuum in there.

I tried making another video with a different camera while I was out testing the updated spark tables. Hopefully, the sound turned out nice.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
Hey @dezldave961

Do you use HPTuners? I'm finally at the point where I can start tuning this, but I'm getting a lot of mixed information. How do you start? I tried doing this Open Loop Maf Tuning but having an E85 AFR gauge is screwing it all up. My MAF error histogram is showing -36% at 7500 hz which makes sense since my wideband stoich is 9.85:1 instead of 14.7. Can I just change stoich in HP? Should I not do my fuel tuning this way?
1.png
 

dezldave961

2004 Turbo Regal
I don't know what everyone's infatuation with O/L tuning is, but I know it's big on other platforms like LS's that require it more.

I'm trying to remember what has been done regarding AFR settings to make the PCM happy with E85. There may be some guys on GrandPrixForums who have more info. Here's a discussion they pinned there...
http://www.grandprixforums.com/pcm-tuning/94283-the-defacto-guide-to-tuning-your-car-for-e85.html

Typically, I just use the MAF table to fine tune, one all the AFR settings in PE are where I want them, and the Injector table is how it needs to be. I may get fancy, depending on how much free time I have after the engine's running, to do a VE tune for O/L... TBD.
 

Jon Early

Active Member
I don't know what everyone's infatuation with O/L tuning is, but I know it's big on other platforms like LS's that require it more.

I'm trying to remember what has been done regarding AFR settings to make the PCM happy with E85. There may be some guys on GrandPrixForums who have more info. Here's a discussion they pinned there...
http://www.grandprixforums.com/pcm-tuning/94283-the-defacto-guide-to-tuning-your-car-for-e85.html

Typically, I just use the MAF table to fine tune, one all the AFR settings in PE are where I want them, and the Injector table is how it needs to be. I may get fancy, depending on how much free time I have after the engine's running, to do a VE tune for O/L... TBD.
Isn't recording O/L data how you fine tune the MAF table though? I really don't have any of those initial tuning problems mentioned in the link. My car has already been driving around on E85 with 80# injectors for over a year without any major issues. I'm just trying to dial everything in so that it's right on the money and safe to beat on.

Being that this car is not a stock SC car, my timing tables are all jacked up, the static compression is higher, the cam is advanced a couple degrees and unfortunately the ECUs do not even share all the same tables. This makes tuning for boost a bit more complicated. The 3800 group I'm in has been walking me through it a bit although with mixed opinions. Everyone so far has agreed that my wideband had to go, so that was the first thing I got. The E85 calibration in my old gauge was making tuning in HP and communication with the other members very difficult. A pre-defined sensor should help me a bunch. I'll finish installing that tonight, and hopefully take it on a little cruise. (weather providing)

Before I even touched the fueling I changed all my spark tables over to stock GTP stuff. I don't know why Intense gave me an even hotter than stock ignition timing, but there was a lot of power being left on the table there. It's way more responsive now with 0 KR and the MAF actually goes far beyond the acceptable ECM limit in 2nd and 3rd gear. I bought a mini AFC to combat that, and I can't wait to feel what this car is really made of! Once I get some better data, I'll report back with more specific questions.

Also, apparently relocating my battery to the spare tire well gave me the perfect weight redistribution to lay down two solid black lines with my stock open rear end. I just found that out about a week ago. :cool:
 
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