tuning e85

[413turbo]

Anyone want to share what is working for them with e85?

i'm running stock block
6765 turbo
powerstroke intercooler
65# injectors

WOT at 20#boost i've tried everything from 8.5:1 - 7.2:1 (e85 scale) and timing from 20-24*, with no difference.
MPH is always the same, plugs look like i could add alittle more timing.

then at idle, i've tried from 10.2-9.2 (e85 scale) and timing is around 24-28*


one thing is: for off idle timing i keep hearing of 36-44*, but have always seen total off idle timing at 32* for most cars.

i'm about to moniter EGT, in stock o2 location also. i feel good about playing around with it. some changes have made it feel better, but the numbers are always the same. i guess once i get it figured out where it should be both down low and at WOT, i can blend it and keep going from there. but i'm new to this and dumb as a box of rocks. I just wish i could get some help, and someone tell me what to try for a tuning strategy.

i did good with the TTchip, just kept going until i saw kr, then backed it down and car was fast and never knocked.i was told my rods will jump out and say hello before it knocks on straight e85.

my guess is a/f and then timing, but nothing seems to make a difference. if i need to go farther, then in which direction, and at what point is the edge approaching?

 

[TurboBob]

stock heads?

you will be out of injector soon

what are you using for a stoich ratio for E85? I tune using the gasoline scale, so I need to convert...

Bob

 

[TurboBuRick]

Agreed, 65# injectors will max out quick.

 

[413turbo]

it's staying ~80% duty cycle at 20#'s. so, i'm looking to optimize here and add more boost later.

stock heads, new valve springs

i'm in the process of upgrading the fuel system, and putting in 120's.

9.765 is stioch for me, i prefer lambda, but i know most people are on one scale or the other.

 

[TurboBob]

considering you are still within the range of the injectors, I think you need more boost....

Then you will need more injector..

Bob

 

[BEATAV8]

I found I was able to run a lot of boost with moderate timing. Seems like boost can be dialed up quite a lot, but get a bit greedy on timing and it will let you know....

I ended up with +30PSI boost and 22-23 degrees of timing. But it's just a stock motor with a TA49 and an SMC alky kit, a bit different than something that's built and running a bigger turbo...

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Well you found out and as others have said, you're injectors are probably barely enough for gas on that turbo let alone E85. If you want to keep the stock ECM go 80's for sure and consider how BEATAV8 runs his setup and add a single nozzle Alky kit for even more headroom on cylinder pressure and IDC.

With that turbo I'd consider low 20's timing and more boost, but the IDC is going to creep up on you so make sure you can easily read this function.

Ideally keep it around 7:1 Ethanol Scale AF/R at WOT and you're not going to hurt it until you run too much cylinder pressure. And yes, E85 has it's limits, it's not E98 so there will be a cylinder pressure limit and when you find it, it will be too late so consider Meth if you want safe/high psi runs consistently.

Not sure how that Powerstroke IC affects heat transfer which is why I mentioned the above.

 

[forcefed86]

I’ll second the above. Timing is not where you find the extra power with E85 IMO. Run low timing and high boost. There is usually little to no warning (knock) management with alcohol fuels. By the time your sensor starts going off it’s to late. My knock sensor didn’t even register when my HG let loose on e85. This is especially true if your running a STD heat range plug. I can run 4 heat ranges cooler than stock with no negative side effects (that I’m aware of anyway). You do NOT want a hotter plug when going to E85. IMO run as cold of a plug as you can. No reason to have a glowplug in the cylinder.

Personally I sent out the factory ECU to be modded for low-Z injectors. I’m running 83lb inj’s on a turbotweak chip with a PT68 turbo. DC is in the low 80’s at 21ish psi. I’d suggest going bigger than you think you need. The LPG bosch 120lb injectors are cheap, but on the few setups I’ve worked on it is difficult to get the idle/cruise dialed in. The FIC injectors are great IMO.

 

[49-blues]

What are FIC injectors?

 

[forcefed86]

Fuel Injector Clinic.

Homepage Fuelinjectorclinic

 

[northerngn]

I usually shoot for around 8.0 to 7.8 using xfi using the e-85 scale
At idle I try to get as close to 10.0 s I can but seems to like to idle better with it in the mid to upper 9s afr
I maxed out 85's with stock engine top to bottom with only xfi stretch ic and a te45a running mid 11's

now the only thing gm is the block

-Dan

 

[forcefed86]

I usually shoot for around 8.0 to 7.8 using xfi using the e-85 scale
At idle I try to get as close to 10.0 s I can but seems to like to idle better with it in the mid to upper 9s afr
I maxed out 85's with stock engine top to bottom with only xfi stretch ic and a te45a running mid 11's

now the only thing gm is the block

-Dan

What kind of boost were you running. I'm afraid I'll be out of injector soon as well. Did you up grade to larger inj's? Have an idea on power you were making? I have 2 delphi 1000's in my misc parts bin. I was thinking of just buying 4 additional 1000's. The more I look at the numbers I may end up needing larger.

According to the DIYautotune site delphi 85lb injectors (Aka 83lb actual flow) are only good for 456hp crank hp? This seems oddly low. Eric at turbotweak seemed to think 83's were good for 500whp easy. This does only assume 85% DC at 43.5 psi. They are also using .95 BSFC! Anyone know how true these calculations are?

Delphi 85 lb/hr EV1 Style Fuel Injector - Low-Z DIYAutoTune.com

 

[413turbo]

i've ran as lean as 8.5:1 and rich as 7.6:1 (ithink- going from memory here). i found the same thing at idle, lean it wanted to surge and wouldn't stay steady.

now, understand- i'm running xfi. 20#boost is safe level for my injectors now. i have allready found they max out at 27# boost at 3000 rpm. i already have champion rails and 120#injectors, about to upgrade the fuel system. i'm also working on a new 4.1 motor.

However, in the mean time. i'm wanting to play around and learn on my curent setup. and no, i really don't want to blow it up. i'd like to shelf the motor as a spare.

i've ran a combination of a/f ratios and timing changes. for me it is hard to get everything in the tables smooth like it ough to be. but in all the changes, i'm still making the exact same power. right now my drag tires are on, so i couldn't tell if it would cut them loose down low or not.

looking at the plugs at 22*timing (i think), they look like they could take about 2-5 more degrees of timing.

and i guess i haven't ventured close enough to the EDGE, to make any differences.

i'm trying to use mph at the track for tuning, coupled with my lack of knowledge in making power, just isn't working good, yet.

i guess they are some different tuning startegies out there, it seems some people run mega boost and no timing- some run lean with moderate timing, and then some run rich and lots of timing. this is what it seems like to me?

 

[forcefed86]

Think of timing as a necessary evil...
Keep your timing low and your AFR's rich at first.

1. Get your a/f ratio squared away. Find out what the engine likes, and what is safe. They may not necessarily be the same.
2. Find the boost limit for the engine combination, adjusting a/f ratio as needed to remain safe as the boost is pumped up.
3. Find the optimum MBT. MBT meaning, minimum best timing setting, NOT MAXIMUM.

If you don’t have access to a dyno, MPH is a nice way to tune all of this in. It just takes a lot more time.


You still using 65# injectors?

The MPH to weight calculator puts me at about 491 crank hp at 19-20psi on a PT-68. My DC is in the low 80’s at 6100 rpm. I’m using OEM rails, -8 supply and -6 return with a magnaflow 650HP fuel pump. This already puts me well over what these 83# injectors are “suppose” to flow. I’m using STD petrol scale WB02 at a very rich 10.2-10.3 AFR. I’m hoping I can bump the base fuel pressure to 45 (currently at 40) and lean the AFR out enough to run 25psi. Not sure I’ll make it at this point. I can always throw the Meth injection kit back on if all else fails.

 

[northerngn]

forcefed86...23 1st and 2nd and then t would boost creep to 25 out the back door
-dan

 

[forcefed86]

Well that stinks! Old eric at turbo tweak thought 83s would be good for 500 whp easy. Thanks for the input! Hope. To test it out this fri. at 25 psi.