Transmission Gone?

[cdncutlass]

Please excuse the long post,

I have a 200-4R in my Cutlass behind a 408 c.i small block chevy. The transmission has very few miles. It has a monster in a box 200-4R kit with an extreme automatics valve body, and a 2800-3200 converter with lockup.

Everything was working great. My lockup did start acting up. It actually wouldn't engage, but otherwise no issues. So I bought a new lockup solenoid this weekend and was planning to install this week.

Driving down the highway today I decided to hit the lockup switch and to my surprise it was working. Lockup engaged much slower than before but it worked. Then when coming up to some traffic I turned off the switch and lockup stayed on. The car chugged a bit but we started moving again.

Later I got off the highway and was more into city driving. The car wasn't shifting right and I thought maybe the lockup was still engaged. It started shuttering at low speeds which I thought was the converter. It was making a whining noise. Then it seemed as though the car was in neutral just revving and not moving. I pulled over and checked the fluid level.

The fluid was clean not low, and not burnt. Get back in the car and shifting into gear there is no positive engagement like its in neutral again. It would barely move under it's own power. I shut it down and had it towed home.

I will have a chance to drop the pan tomorrow after work. Any ideas what my problem is? Could it be a pump or converter, or is the transmission done? Anything simple I should check for?

 

[Nascar83Fan]

Sounds like your forward reverse drum isnt engaging and your transmission pump may of went out. The fact you heard whining and the transmission was actting up & you said it barely moves under it's own power would indicate a rebuild probably is in it's future.
The converter could also be slipping something fierce and that could be part of the problem as well.
Until you see what the fluid looks like from dropping the transmission pan you won't know how bad it could be.
Speaking from experience of years ago when i had my TR 200-4r transmission go out on me and the fluid looked fine on the dipstick but the fluid in the transmission however wasn't so pretty.
Ended up having to of had a few things that needed to be replaced to include the forward reverse drum and other important engaging parts. Although my transmission pump hadn't failed, so what you see may differ from what was the aftermath in my case. Hopefully in your case it's just the pump and nothing else too major, but be prepared for some stuff to need to be replaced inside.
You might want to have someone inspect the converter for debris and also look at the bottom of the inside of your transmission pan for debris or other things that might give you an idea of what happened.
A recent rebuild on your trans and with very few miles on it would make you think something during the process finally showed up and has you where you're at now.
You'll know for sure once you get it torn down, and can look at everything.
Where was the work done at to it before it went out on you, if you can disclose that?

Wish you the best of luck on it not being worst case scenerio.




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[TexasT]

Might have stripped the splines off the stator support. Have to slide the torque converter out to see.
And I'd put the new solenoid in too as it seems yours is sticky.

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[cdncutlass]

Well here's a picture of the pan. The fluid looks fine, but these deposits are in the pan. Is this clutch material?

 

[Nascar83Fan]

Does the debris have a metallic feel to it or does it feel like something else?
That debris looks nasty, almost looks like sludge in some spots. Also zooming in on the photos i had noticed a bit of metallic specks, which means you probably had some metal parts somewhere in there that have worn some material off of them.
You never saw any smoke at anytime correct?
It'd probably be a safe bet some of that debris made it's way into the transmission pump you see sitting in the transmission pan.
So it more than likely has contaminated the system and would explain why you had pump whining as the pump was choking on the debris.


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[bison]

Well here's a picture of the pan. The fluid looks fine, but these deposits are in the pan. Is this clutch material?View attachment 231913View attachment 231914

Looks like direct clutches


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[cdncutlass]

Does the debris have a metallic feel to it or does it feel like something else?
That debris looks nasty, almost looks like sludge in some spots. Also zooming in on the photos i had noticed a bit of metallic specks, which means you probably had some metal parts somewhere in there that have worn some material off of them.
You never saw any smoke at anytime correct?
It'd probably be a safe bet some of that debris made it's way into the transmission pump you see sitting in the transmission pan.
So it more than likely has contaminated the system and would explain why you had pump whining as the pump was choking on the debris.


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Never saw smoke or smelled anything burning. The debris feels like a sludge, slightly gritty but not really. It definitely has some metal in there you can see it in the sunlight. I think I will have to pull the whole trans and have it looked at by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[Nascar83Fan]

Definitely shouldn't be any sludge in there, curious if it was there before during the rebuild or if it was something that very recently appeared.
That sludge looks like it's been there a bit, wonder where it originated from and where it ended up getting into. I hope whoever you go with to get the transmission rebuilt knows their way with 200-4r's that were put behind the turbo v6's in TR's and that they rebuild it correctly even though you have it behind a diff motor altogether.
Like was mentioned by someone else, replace the tcc solenoid with a new one and it'll be happier for a long time to come once whatever inside is fixed.


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[cdncutlass]

At this point I don't know if it can be band-aid fixed, at least until I can get into an Extreme Automatics stage 2. That will depend on the extent of the damage/cost.

 

[TexasT]

Do you know what the pressures are?
What converter are you using?
As bison pointed out that could be direct clutches, especially if you don't have decent pressure. Or could be converter clutch material, or both.
Id pull it and disassemble for inspection.
I'm guessing this is a brf but if it has been into there is no telling what you have.

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[cdncutlass]

Do you know what the pressures are?
What converter are you using?
As bison pointed out that could be direct clutches, especially if you don't have decent pressure. Or could be converter clutch material, or both.
Id pull it and disassemble for inspection.
I'm guessing this is a brf but if it has been into there is no telling what you have.

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I don't know what the pressures were.

For a converter I have the ACC Performance "Boss Hog" 2800-3200rpm with lockup. I realize it's not the best choice. It has about 1000 miles on it.

I think the only decent part in the transmission is the Extreme Automatics valve body. The rest is a monster transmission kit which is a mild build at best.

Mega Monster Rebuild Kit Includes:
▪ Gaskets
▪ O-Rings
▪ Lip Seals
▪ Sealing Rings
▪ .500 Boost Valve
▪ Friction Clutch Plates
▪ Steel Plates
▪ Forward/Direct Performance Clutches
▪ 200-4R Filter
▪ 200-4R Heavy Duty Band
▪ Teflon Pump Bushing
▪ Delco Front Seal Retainer Clip
▪ 200-4R Superior Shift Reprogramming Kit
▪ Hardened Pump Rings
▪ 200-4R Heavy Duty 10 Vane Rotor Gear
▪ 200-4R 10 Vane Rotor Guide
▪ 200-4R High Rev Vanes
▪ 200-4R Heavy Duty Throttle Valve Spring
▪ Heavy Duty Sun Shell
▪ High Performance Billet Servo
▪ New TCC-Solenoid

 

[TexasT]

Id start off with a new band and a new set of direct clutches. Inspect the drum and direct steels. A new set of rubber and gaskets. Get your direct clutch setup tight, and get your servo clearance set and see how that works out. Id use a 700r4 bottom feed filter to make sure you feed it well. A deeper pan would be even better.


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