Track results

[Turbo__Tim]

Well I'm happy with the 60' times (1.7, 1.8's) but 13.1 @ 99 mph, (@ 18 psi.) is a tad slow for this combination, even with pump gas.

Ed Baker and friend Steve were there, and helped out a bit. (thanks guys!) We upper the FP, and tried a Lubrant chip. Ed has an impressive chip collection....

Adding to my embarassment were two other turbo buicks that were kicking my butt, with very mild combinations. This was not a 'mood enhancer', and I avioded the subject matter of what I was running. Sheesh!

Of course today I figured out the problem.

A couple of weeks ago the 340 fuel pump went. I replaced it, but didn't check where the 'knock point' was with the new pump. Apparently the old pump had been operating at much less 100 percent, when I determined the knock to be occuring at 14 psi. Since this was a new combination, I just went ahead and adjusted the alchy turn-on point to be 12 psi. I could only use 1/4 the speed control on the SMC, however, and maxed out at 21 psi.

Interestingly enough, the EGT's, and 0-2 readings were normal, I guess from adding the alchy.

Today I determined that I was getting no knock at 18 psi, and set the turn on point to 17psi, temporarily.

25 psi, no knock!....Yeah baby!

Back to Atco Tuesday, with an extra 7 psi.

Who's your Daddy!

 

[TRENT THOMPSON]

is this a street chip you are using? if so then why are you running alky? alky is probably drowning it.

 

[Turbojorge]

Yeah, what Trent said.

Lost of people around here are running full blown race chips (RA 108, 110, etc) and are running very nice numbers (11.70-12.10) at 22-24psi with no problems with alky.

If you have any doubts, throw in a couple of gallons of 110 or 112 and have fun.

 

[Intercooler]

Not to knock you but that is horrible! GN-1's, FM, 50's, convertor and a 51 to go 13.1@99 MPH? My bone stock GN ran 13.3@102 with slicks and a one legger on 19 PSI. The T ran 11.52 surging the whole way at 118 MPH on 19.5 PSI and no GN-1's. Something is way wrong.

 

[blackbuick87]

MPH should be way more than 99. Thats the big concern

 

[rastaz]

At 25 PSI that combo should run 11.10-11.20.

 

[azgn]

at 120 or so (at the very least....)

 

[OldGrayII]

Don't worry, your only down about 200 HP!!!!!!

 

[UNGN]

Got to love those Art Carr Non lock ups. Really allow smoking trap speeds. 99 mph is stock car, 14 psi traps.

 

[GNVAIR]

Have you done a leak down test on that engine? With your combo and 18lbs, something is way wrong.
My GN had 125k on the original engine when I last ran it mostly stock (Lubrant street chip, Hooker cat back, 30lb red tops, walbro 340, etc) and went 13.1 @ 104 on the BFG Radial TA's.
Your car has to be have more mph in it than that. Adding 7lbs to it is not going to pick it up that much. I would start looking at compression readings because your mph with you combo at 18lbs should be WAY higher.

 

[Butch]

How many miles on the engine? May need valve springs too!

Butch

 

[Quick6]

Tim, my advice is to not go turning up the boost at this point in search of better performance until you find out why your mph is down. Were you using Turbolink or DS on these runs and if so what was your rpm VS mph at the trap? You said your O2's and egt was ok, but I don't think you posted them, I'm curious what they were.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Thank You All for responding. I appreciate it.

Well I made the mistake of thinking that my knock point was 14 psi, instead of 18-19 psi. (see the first post for the explenation of how that happened)

I discovered my mistake today, and am now running 25 psi with no knock. Also I'm putting a lot more denatured alchy in there now, to match the greater amount of gas and oxygen I'm putting in. It's running great, and no knock!

The AC non lock-up does trade off power, for more reliability. (Less shock)

Correct that this is a 11.2 combination, but I'm not trying to get there. My goal is to reach 12.0 with pump gas. No lightening of the car, no slicks, no trans brake, no knock, no scattered trannys, or broken drive train components.

I'm still learning. I got a 1.74 60' time by waiting a fraction of a second before giving it full throttle after releasing the foot brake during launch. This gives the car time to squat back on the rear tires, and get moving a bit before full power hits. Releasing the brake, and mashing down on the gas pedal at the same time yielded 2 second 60' times, or worse.

Nittos, launched at 5 psi. 4 second 'burn time'.

I have found that EGT's need to stay below 1650* for my car. 0-2's at the end of the run bottomed at .780. No knock there.

The translator+ settings are 15 percent rich base fuel. All other settings are left alone. (It's a 23 degree chip)

Just for fun I dropped the WOT spark by 2 degrees on the last run. Since the alchy was drowning the mixture so bad, the lack of timing made things much worse. Egt's went to 1675. Since I wasn't burning the mixture in the cylinders, it was burning in the headers.

I was thinking about that on the way home last night, and that is one of the reasons I decided to re-check the knock point.

The other reason was when I tried a low timing chip, It lost all kinds of power. Couldn't even get 100 feet out. Spit and die, spit and die.

My conclusions: Alchy on too early caused a flooded condition, causing rapid EGT increase. Since I couldn't run enough alchy to cool it down (30 percent spray) the flooded condition continued all the way throughout the run.

With a well tuned engine, and well tuned alchy system, and running 100 percent denatured, you should ingest a good 12 ounces, maybe 16, in a 12 second run. I was using maybe 4 ounces. With water/alchy mixture, about half that.

I may be wrong, but the car is running great now, and we shall see next week how things turn out. I'm still learning, and have a lot to learn. I'm just sharing my experiences, and ideas. Hopefully somebody will pick up on a thing or two, and be able to use it.

Either that, or my fingers, and your eyes just got tired for nothing!

 

[V6POWER]

Your goal of 12.0 with 93 + alcohol is too low for your combo. I can run that with a TA-49. See my sig. No flame intended.

 

[azgn]

you prolly would have gotten better advice if you had mentioned you only wanted to run 12.0 on no tires, no launch, and no gas

then we would have understood......

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by Turbo__Tim

Correct that this is a 11.2 combination, but I'm not trying to get there. My goal is to reach 12.0 with pump gas. No lightening of the car, no slicks, no trans brake, no knock, no scattered trannys, or broken drive train components.

I'm still learning. I got a 1.74 60' time by waiting a fraction of a second before giving it full throttle after releasing the foot brake during launch. This gives the car time to squat back on the rear tires, and get moving a bit before full power hits. Releasing the brake, and mashing down on the gas pedal at the same time yielded 2 second 60' times, or worse.

My 11.52 was with a 1.76 60 ft. on pump gas (no alchy) on 19.5 PSI. I have a friend with a TA-49, cam, ported heads, 009's going 12.0 on pump gas and 11.88 on pump gas with a mix of xylene. Have you checked your boost gauge with a different one? Your MPH and no knock at 25 PSI indicates maybe being off by 7 PSI.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Look Quick, I think you meant to say that that is too HIGH for my combination, right. If soo I agree. No flame taken at all..BTW I love the '49, it's a fun turbo!

azgn, I understand, and agree, but 12's are good for now. Maybe a roll cage in the future, but I love driving my car daily, and like it the way it is.

Intercooler, you are misunderstanding, I think. I ran the 13.1 time with a badly alchy flooded tune, at 18 psi. Your 7 psi number is right on the mark however so I know you have a pretty good feel for his kind of thing, but I did that 25 psi run today, off the track. Tuesday will tell the story on how fast the new tune is. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Sorry..

Had I turned the alchy off and just ran a nice clean 18 psi without all the alchy clogging things up, (yesterday) I would have been in the high 12's. I just didn't realize that with the new fuel pump I could run that with no knock.

Man, the old pump musta reall been shot before it died...

Just a lesson learned. Don't activate alchy until the point at which it is needed. Alchy needs to hit good hot cylinder heads to mix properly, and still do it's cooling job. You want to get them hot, spray the alchy, then maintain that temperature for the rest of the run....

That's all I was trying to say..

 

[Intercooler]

No, I worded it wrong. What I was saying is those numbers look like under 12 PSI. No flame here but my old GN (RIP) with stock everything and only free mods ran 12.8@107 with a 1.8 60 ft. on BFG radials, not Drags. Let my friend drive it and he went 12.8@106. This was on 19 PSI with a stock turbo, IC, injectors, convertor, etc... How far are you from North East, MD? If you would like you can bring it down Wed. night and Frankg and I will go over the car with you. With regular radials making power is pointless but if you come down I am certain we can assist youin getting your combo in the 11.8-12.1 range on pump gas. You have a ton more than Frank and have a little edge over my old combo due to your GN-1's so I don't think I am speaking crazily. We have another friend (Stage1 on here) that has a 49, 009's, ported irons and stock everything else going 11.76@115.6 on BFG Drag Radials and 100 octane on a RA-107 chip.

 

[UNGN]

Something is still wrong with the mph. What was the best mph you ran? with GN1's, straight 93 and anything over 14 psi of boost you should be running 105 minimum. GN1's at 25 psi should be knocking on the 10's, not getting into the 12's.

I hope its only a tuning issue, but it sounds more major than that.

If I could get 1.74 60 fts out of regular radials, I'd run them. What tires exactly are you running?

 

[Quick6]

Tim, I still think your MPH is down for your combo (no flame here) just something to me does not seem quite right??? I run a 51 like you along with a V4, bluetops, coldair, 9" 2800 precision and all the free mods and I was just running 111~112 in the 1/4 with alcohol and 22 degrees of timing on 21psi. I may be wrong, but I would think with a FM, 51 and GN-1's you would be doing alot better. Is commpression good on this motor? My runs would use less than 12 oz of alcohol per run.