To ZDDP or not ZDDP. THAT is the question

[luv2whelie]

I understand the need for ZDDP for initial break-in, but am curious if it's important to add it with every oil change indefinitely. I'm working out a deal on an '87 T-type that runs great, but hasn't had ZDDP run in it for the last 5 years and many miles. Should I start adding it with every oil change from now on, or am I ok after that long? - John

 

[luv2whelie]

sorry for the similar post. just found another ZDDP post going on from a couple days ago

 

[Bruce Urie]

Do it right, the first time, and play it safe.....add ZDDP to every oil change.....our flat tappet cams need the zinc, phosphate, etc. Don't worry about it....just do it.:biggrin:

I'm sure every one here on the board feels the same way.

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[just plain john]

It couldn't hurt, that's for sure.

 

[1quick6]

I agree. There's no reason not to at this point.

I recently switched to Joe Gibbs Driven hot rod oil, which is supposed to have a decent level of zinc. I haven't read any performance reports to see how effective it really is on its own for our cams.

 

[eric_1984ttype]

If in doubt poor it in. Its cheap insurance

 

[84gnguy]

all of my toys have flat tappet cams.I have been using Chevron Delo 15W40 which still has the correct amount of ZDDP needed for f/t cams IIRC...used to use Rotella 15W40 but that dropped below the range needed

 

[Boost231]

start running it in every oil change. its not going to hurt.

 

[TurboDave]

all of my toys have flat tappet cams.I have been using Chevron Delo 15W40 which still has the correct amount of ZDDP needed for f/t cams IIRC

Not if it's rated at the newer SM grading.

 

[84gnguy]

Not if it's rated at the newer SM grading.

yup..it is just checked
My info is out of date....
There is probably nothing out there on the shelf that has,is it what..1600 ppm of ZDDP for f/t protection ?

 

[nullrout]

Maybe Richard Clark can chime in, but I'm pretty sure that AMSOil Dominator racing oil still have the requisite level of ZDDP....

Here is a quote from the AMSOil page:

"AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic Racing Oil features an additive package heavily fortified with zinc and phosphorus for superior long-term wear protection. Designed for maximum durability, it ensures critical engine components are protected for the duration of the race. Dominator Synthetic Racing Oil’s superior additive technology provides unmatched durability in extreme conditions. In addition, its high levels of zinc and phosphorus additives make it ideal for street rods, muscle cars and other vehicles with flat-tappet cams."

 

[Ttype6]

Adding a ZDDP additive might not give you the protection you think. The problem is that the detergent in the additive can cancel out the positive benefits of the zinc. I like to let the refinery blend the oil. The oldest,continuously active refinery in the US is in Bradford Pennsylvania. This is the refinery that used to make Pennzoil and Kendall racing oil. Since the rights to these brand names have been purchased by other companies,these two oils aren't what they used to be.The good news is that this refinery is still blending oil and the product that they sell is called Brad-Penn Racing oil. Because this refinery is still up and running,they still use the same Pennsylvania crude oil that is prized throughout the world and there product has plenty of zinc. In general,if you're going to find an oil with enough zinc content it will have the word Racing in its name. Google Brad-Penn and read some more about it.

 

[nullrout]

Not to knock Brad-Penn but AMSOil Dominator 10w30 and 15w50 both beat their respective B-P equivilants in wear tests...

 

[tony rocha]

what to run for oil

What about Shell rotella oil. Tractor trailers use it and i ran it in my STAGE 1 and found no sludge of any kind in the motor 10w /40 or 20/50 is what i ran in it. I think if it's good enough for turbos in tt that run a lot of miles it's good enough for us to run. Please give me some input I know i would have to use lighter weight.:biggrin:

 

[turbobob924]

I was running royal purple for a while with a flat tappet and had on problems..

Here is excerpt form royal purple website:

Do your motor oils contain zinc and phosphorous?

Yes. All Royal Purple engine oils contain the zinc/phosphorous compound zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) and are suitable for both roller and flat tappet valve trains.

Can your oil be used with flat tappet cams?

Yes. For stock or mildly modified flat tappet valve trains (<.525” lift), we recommend our SAE 10W40, 15W40 or 20W50 engine oils. In applications with flat tappet valve trains using high-lift cams and/or high RPM applications, we strongly recommend upgrading to our XPR line of engine oils as these have an even greater concentration of ZDDP providing excellent protection with the higher spring pressures. For a viscosity recommendation, contact our Tech Dept. at 888-382-6300.

 

[cruzn57]

I guess I don't understand some of you guys!

you will run C16, to insure no knock, when C12 would be plenty.
you add alcohol and turn it up to insure no knock.
alot of you add Huge intercoolers, to insure lower inlet temps.
some add 75 lb injectors, when 42lbs would be sufficient.
you install the largest turbo you can afford, (over kill)

but when someone suggests you add ZDDP for insurance, you object, or say its over kill.
I use it in my buicks, my 57 chevy ( flat tappet) just because its insurance for the lifters, this is the highest load item in your motor, and you want to cheap out?
its way cheaper than a new cam & lifters ( bearings,etc)
But its your car!

 

[PaulRV6]

Where can I buy the ZDDP? Do places like NAPA sell it or is it a specialty item? Thanks

 

[SS/GN]

Not if it's rated at the newer SM grading.

What about Shell rotella oil. Tractor trailers use it and i ran it in my STAGE 1 and found no sludge of any kind in the motor 10w /40 or 20/50 is what i ran in it. I think if it's good enough for turbos in tt that run a lot of miles it's good enough for us to run. Please give me some input I know i would have to use lighter weight.:biggrin:

Do some homework boys the latest oil is SN and is on the shelf as we speakAnd is still no good for our cars.BTW Shell has been SM for over 2 years

Kevin

 

[Dennis Kirban]

To answer some of the questions posted....

ZDDPlus is available from most of the vendors that advertise on this forum Gbodyparts, myself, Nick Micale, TA Performance, Jack Cotton to name a few.

This product has been brought about by Richard Clark who for those not aware of it, owns without any doubt the largest turbo regal collection of parts and cars. (I have first hand knowledge of this since he has been a buyer from us for many years.

This is the same product that is sold by several major mail order companies eastwood, isky, crower, erson, moss motors, year one etc....several major studebaker companies, old ford companies etc...we also sell to honest charley speed shop (one of the oldest in the country)

While oil companies may claim they have zddp or the big long technical wording...that is not the major concern as a owner of a performance flat tappet engine should be concerned with...what you want to know is how many ppm of zddp is in the oil....when our cars were new under SF category it was 1,800 ppm....Brad Penn does not have that much...

You also have to keep in mind, that zddp depletes at a faster rate for the first 1,000 miles you drive.....so its best to start off with 1,800 ppm over say 1,400 or 1,200 ppm....of zddp.

Companies may say they have zinc, but it has to be the molecule zddp...

It really is quite simple....buy any oil you been using and favor....add one bottle of zddp which wil ltreat a 4-6 quart capacity back to 1,800 ppm....every oil change....

the more performance your engine cranks, the higher the extreme pressure points and risk you are taking if you do not add zddp....wear translates into metal shavings...which can be costly to fix when it occurs.

Also zddpaste for cam assembly we have proof it is superior even to Joe Gibbs assembly paste.
Crower uses the same paste.

As a turbo Buick owner, you are in a unusual position being that the company behind it has nothing to hide, and in fact has a real passion for the same cars as you and I.

It is very tough to get the product in retail stores. With the new SN oil coming and now they want to up the ethanol to 15% instead of 10% its a wonder any of the older cars will be able to digest the new stuff and survive.

From a logical stand point at $10 a bottle its cheap insurance. Its tough enough overcoming all the other issues with these motors and parts without adding to the problems of premature wear on the cam and lifters.

denniskirban@yahoo.com