To Rebuild or Not to Rebuild?

Overdose

New Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
First off, sorry about posting yet another rebuild thread but I’m hoping to get some of your guys’ input on what direction to take after pulling the motor in my GN. I've read through a ton of different threads on here on engine rebuilds, which were very helpful, but have also made me more confused than ever on what approach to take. To sum it up, I recently pulled the engine in my 104k mile 87 GN, not for rebuild purposes originally, but to clean everything up to make it more presentable in local shows and to fix oil leaks. However, after pulling it out I started second guessing just putting it back in the car without doing a rebuild considering the age, mileage, and the time involved in taking it out and putting it back in. Then after reading through many of the posts on here and the outcome of some of the rebuilds I’m now second guessing opening the motor at all.

The engine ran fine when I pulled it out while never burning a drip of oil and had no mechanical issues that I could tell. I did notice it did have some blow-by at idle coming out of the valve cover breather, but nothing that I thought was worth worrying about I assume.

I was planning on at least pulling the heads to at least check valves and inspect everything. However, I’ve read that the best head gasket seal on these cars were the factory gaskets which makes me wonder if it is even worth pulling the heads. Is this true?

My long term goal for this car is to make it a low to mid 11 second car that retains drivability and reliability as much as possible. From what I’ve read on here, this doesn’t seem to be too difficult with a fairly stock setup and alky. I already have a new alky kit waiting to be installed. I was told the stock turbo was replaced with a TE-34 turbo by the previous owner. The car also has a 3” downpipe, 60lb injectors, TT chip, larger fuel pump w/hot wire kit, power plate, and a scanmaster. If I don’t tear into the engine, what would you guys recommend to achieve this goal?

I guess in general, I’d just like to know anyone’s input on what they would do in this situation, would you do a full rebuild or not? Keep in mind I only put around 2k miles on this car a year. The money part is something to consider, but I’m more focused on doing it right than what it costs.

If there are any other tips or suggestions anyone has while having the engine out, I’d love to hear them.

As always, thanks for everyone’s input.
 
Never too late to rebuild it. If it's already out, and you have the $$$ (assuming you have some, because you want to make a reliable 11 second GN) tear the motor apart and do it right. You can buy a crank and rod/piston kit for I believe around 1400.00 from some of the vendors. Have a good machinist spec everything out for you and balance it, and put it back together. A good felpro Headgasket will work, I would put studs in the bottom end and also on the top of the engine (heads). Get a set of some nice aftermarket heads, a nice flat tappet/roller cam (doesn't have to be huge) a bigger turbo, make sure that your fuel system is good etc. etc....and you will have a nice, reliable 11 second GN that won't blow up if tuned right. You can push that longblock into the 11s no problem, a bigger turbo than the "T34" and your current mods would go 11s already properly tuned. I have read 1000 posts about experienced turbobuick owners doing it, and they have seen posts like this 10000 times. The only problem is, it already has 100k on it, to push it into the 11s on a stock bottom end, and expect it to last for a considerable amount of time...could be difficult. I bet a few of the gurus will chime in and give you a more detailed perspective on your question.

Correction- I just went into the parts for sale section, David Husek with Turbobuick Performance has a full stroker kit, including crank, rods, pistons, AND rings, for $1,450.00 How could you ever go wrong with that? Again, depends on your budget.

Best quote I've ever seen- "Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick two"
 
At that mileage I wouldn't rebuild it. I'd put a new factory timing chain (port the oil pump while the cover is off), new oil pump pickup screen, and a set of valve springs if they haven't been changed yet. Then beat on it for another 100K and build it then if it needs it.


This is all assUming it's got good leak down numbers at the moment.
 
^^^^^
What he said !
Mid elevens will live just fine with the stock internals tuned properly with no knock.
Clean it up and drop it back in !!

Bryan
 
Since you're unsure about rebuilding it but want to make it an 11 second car save yourself some headache and start talking to one of the builders on here. If you plan on making it a regular driver then I'd honestly say build the engine like you planned on pushing it into the low 10's. That will insure the engine will survive and if you feel like going faster at a later date you don't have to do much.;)
 
Thanks guys! I appreciate the variety feedback, keep them coming please.

baby6 - A stroker is definitely something to consider. Great quote by the way!;)

earlbrown - I forgot to mention I recently installed a new rollmaster chain and I have a set of 980 valve springs sitting in the box. What is the purpose of porting the oil pump, does this increase the pressure or just maximize the flow? I haven't done a leak down test but sounds like that could help in determining if it's worth pulling the heads or not.

charlief1 - I like the approach of building it to support more power later down the road, I never thought of that but something to consider.
 
The purpose of porting the pump is because while the cover is off you need to open it up to inspect it anyways. Might as well make it flow more oil and eat up less HP doing it.

Don't pull the heads unless you absolutely have to.
 
Overdose,

Put the fresh valve springs in.... at the least. A nice set of used champion iron heads with a roller rocker set-up and roller cam, would be on my wish list. Big difference when the heads can flow the air, but you'll need supporting hardware, like tubo, intercooler and torque converter to feel the increased h/p when in the throttle, which all can be added later. Depends on your budget really, with that said, there is are some valid points to leaving the car near stock h/p levels.... like less frustration and more money for other things in life.

Chuck
 
Thanks Chuck. If I see a used set of champions I'll be all over them but it sounds like they go pretty quick when they do come up for sale on here. I'm leaning more towards the direction of not rebuilding and adding some good bolt-ons like you mentioned and then backing it up with a turbo, intercooler, and converter combination eventually. What I don't want to do is turn this car into something that is more of a money pit than it already is where all I do is work on it and not enjoy it. I already have another car like this I built years ago that isn't even streetable anymore because I spent every extra dime I had throwing go fast parts on it, which had its consequences. It now only serves the purpose of something to look at and talk about with buddies while standing around it drinking beer, not what I had in mind when I spent all that money building it. This car is different though. These cars on the other-hand are iconic and have a historic value to it that I want to maintain. But with that, the first time I pull up to a C7 vette at a stoplight I want that vette owner to remember what a turbo buick is and what they were and still are known for :D .

Does anyone know if the iron Champions flow pretty well straight out of the box or do they need additional work to make them flow worthy?
 
For what you're doing they flow fine...


but if you're thinking about buying heads and cams and strokers, etc...... put your unopened low mileage engine back in the car. Start gathering parts while looking for a good deal on a block. Then you've got your dream engine, your car is running the entire time, and you'll have a backup engine.

No point tearing apart a running engine just to replace everything but the block.
 
For what you're doing they flow fine...


but if you're thinking about buying heads and cams and strokers, etc...... put your unopened low mileage engine back in the car. Start gathering parts while looking for a good deal on a block. Then you've got your dream engine, your car is running the entire time, and you'll have
No point tearing apart a running engine just to replace everything but the block.


Right on, best advice in this thread
 
Well, after tearing some of the parts of the engine and getting a closer look now I'm not so sure I'm dealing with an unopened engine. I'm pretty sure the heads are not the original ones. I found some crayon markings on the heads which lead me to believe they were junkyard heads at some point. If I'm not mistaken from what I've read on here the factory gaskets were solid metal and the ones on this engine are definitely not solid metal. So now I'm not sure what I'm working with. I also found a nice surprise on the back of the intake manifold, mice droppings, and a lot of them!

20131117_135743.jpg




 
While you're there, replace all the plastic rocker arm retainer buttons. Part number MR1829. You can get them at any fast food parts store.
 
For what you're doing they flow fine...


but if you're thinking about buying heads and cams and strokers, etc...... put your unopened low mileage engine back in the car. Start gathering parts while looking for a good deal on a block. Then you've got your dream engine, your car is running the entire time, and you'll have a backup engine.

No point tearing apart a running engine just to replace everything but the block.

Extremely good advice! I wish I would have started saving $ and finding parts for a nice built motor years ago. Just heads/roller cam and a basic refresh of rings & bearings is adding up more and more each day. And when it's done, I know I'll wish I had done a stroker with a nice crank, rods and pistons:(
 
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