Time to go Stage II!

[Alky V6]

I've been doing some layout of the intake ports with cardboard just to see what sort of room I'm going to have around the runners. There is going to be a ton of room under the plenum. I'm thinking of mounting the coil pack upside down to the outside of the bottom of the plenum. The ignition wires would have a nice smooth path out between a couple runners and over the valve covers. There would even be enough room left to mount both primary and secondary injectors to the inside of each runner in the valley area. The fuel rails would run front to rear under the coil pack.
With the coil pack mounted to the underside of the plenum of an alcohol engine, that's probably going to be the coolest place possible to mount a coil pack in the engine bay.

 

[Alky V6]

One thing I don't like about the above is that it greatly limits what I can do with the floor of the plenum, and the lower edge of each port entry. I'm trying to design this from the inside out, and the valley coil mounting will put a restriction on that. I'm going to move the coil mount to somewhere different.
Having the injectors mounted in the valley area will pretty much leave out the option of having the incoming charge air enter the plenum from the bottom. I've got to think on that one more.

 

[Alky V6]

I'm thinking of mounting both pri and sec E injectors on the valve cover side of the runners, the nitrous on the valley side of the runners, and the M nozzles inside the plenum. I can work the plumbing of the nitrous nozzles to still leave the bottom of the plenum clear, if I decide that I want to feed the intake air into the plenum using the bottom side.
I still have the problem of the priming. I may have to divide up the primer jet into six smaller jets and feed each cylinder more precisely. With the old engine, I was priming the engine with gasoline a little over 12" in front of the throttle body through one jet and it was a bit of a trick to get the right throttle opening to get the fuel to pass the throttle blade with the right amount of atomization to get picked up by the runners and light off. The runner openings were above the bottom of the plenum, so I couldn't just rely on the fuel hitting the bottom of the plenum then flowing into a few intake ports.

 

[norbs]

Question what is the mj output of the spark on that ignition system?

 

[Alky V6]

Question what is the mj output of the spark on that ignition system?

Here's a write up on the ignition system.
http://www.electromotive-inc.com/products/

 

[Squid4life]

Question what is the mj output of the spark on that ignition system?

You worried about the spark jumping to the intake or valley plate? I thought about that when I saw the close proximity of the coil to the rest of the intake, but I like the idea of the design for a race car only. Not sure I'd try it on my car that will see more driving. It is close but not sure if you'd have an issue with that or not, as long as you had good, tight wires and boots.

Looking good Donnie, very interesting so far.

 

[Alky V6]

You worried about the spark jumping to the intake or valley plate? I thought about that when I saw the close proximity of the coil to the rest of the intake, but I like the idea of the design for a race car only. Not sure I'd try it on my car that will see more driving. It is close but not sure if you'd have an issue with that or not, as long as you had good, tight wires and boots.

Looking good Donnie, very interesting so far.

That is something I thought about. EMI too, with the injectors being so close to the coils.

 

[Alky V6]

I've settled on an intake runner length of 4.85". I found a degree of taper that allowed me to pump up the midrange a little without losing any top end. In fact, gain just a tad in the top end.

 

[turbofabricator]

Donnie, if you mount the coil packs upside down, won;t all the sparks just fall out of the coil packs? I mean heck they only hold so many sparks. Hate to see you run out of sparks half way down the track. Than you would also have all those leaked sparks pooling onto the lifter valley cover. Surely they'll bite the first person who sticks thier finger in there.

Keep going. The port flanges are the easy part. Now comes the "FUN" part.

 

[Alky V6]

I've been in the Caribbean (Nevis island) for the past week tuning on another methanol and nitrous burning Buick V6. I'll be back home tomorrow.
This stroker V6 is in a 240Z, running a Borg Warner 91mm/T4 turbo (Mike's Turbo). It really doesn't need the nitrous with the T4 housing. Without the help of the nitrous and without the aux fueling, which needs some reconfiguring, the car is in the high 5s in the 1/8 mile with 18-19 psi boost. The engine was setup by Mike at TA for 30-40 psi once I get the intake straightened out for them.

 

[Alky V6]

Yep. Got another intake to work on. The island intake will take priority. They're trying to get the car ready for a major Caribbean meet of the year.

 

[ttypewhite]

Will the upper half of the intake clear the hood? or will she be poking out like the last setup? Looks great!!! All the best with it Donnie.

 

[Alky V6]

Will the upper half of the intake clear the hood? or will she be poking out like the last setup? Looks great!!! All the best with it Donnie.

I do have a hole in the hood, so if anything I will be trying to fill the hole, but it won't be poking out as far.

 

[Alky V6]

The intake runner component itself of the manifold will be 3.475" long.
Intake flange thickness: .75"
Port entry plate thickness: .50" with a 1/2" radiused port entrance.
Plenum wall thickness: .125"
Overall intake port length about 4.850".
The angularity of the port still needs to be taken into consideration with the above measurements.
Time to fire up the design CAD program.

 

[Alky V6]

I've been making some headway on the intake runner design. I still have to add the injectors and nitrous nozzle mounting bosses. Injector bosses will be incorporated onto both the outer and inner sides of the runners.

 

[ijames]

Don, just for grins a 3.5" square aluminum plate (to approximate your 3.4" x 4" dropping to 3") 0.125" thick with edges fully fixed and 30 psi on one side will deflect 0.003" at the center and have a bending stress of 7000 psi, so 1/8" thick seems ok there. When you get a shape and dimensions for the lid I'll try to run that for you.

 

[Alky V6]

Don, just for grins a 3.5" square aluminum plate (to approximate your 3.4" x 4" dropping to 3") 0.125" thick with edges fully fixed and 30 psi on one side will deflect 0.003" at the center and have a bending stress of 7000 psi, so 1/8" thick seems ok there. When you get a shape and dimensions for the lid I'll try to run that for you.

Thanks for the analysis. Very cool. The plan is to run up to 45 psi with this monster. Plug that number in for your calculating.

 

[Alky V6]

I've picked up the material to start on the runners. The runners will be partially machined in two half pieces. At some point, the two halves will be welded together and the machining will then be completed. This was the cheapest way to make the runners. Trying to buy the pieces large enough to machine the whole runner out of one chunk would have cost almost twice as much for the material.
When the runners are finished, you won't be able to tell that they were welded together.

 

[KendallF]

This sort of stuff is when CNC absolutely rocks. I am missing my access to the CNC shop at the local junior college, where I made a bunch of intakes and conversion parts a few years ago.

BTW, I'm enjoying seeing your pictures and fabrication. I think it's a little nuts, but that makes it more fun.

 

[Alky V6]

This sort of stuff is when CNC absolutely rocks. I am missing my access to the CNC shop at the local junior college, where I made a bunch of intakes and conversion parts a few years ago.

BTW, I'm enjoying seeing your pictures and fabrication. I think it's a little nuts, but that makes it more fun.

I agree. This is crazy spending so much time fabricating a bolt-together intake. You only see this sort of thing in very high end racing, such as Indy or F1. Maybe I just enjoy the machine work too much. At any rate, it will be a very unique intake when it's done.