The RJC boost controller. Questions I have.

Nasty Wendy

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Joined
May 24, 2001
Well RJC won't be open for a couple of days so I thought I'd ask you guys since some of you are using it. What is the range of boost it can control (min. to max)? What is that gauge pictured on the website?
RJC-Boost-Controller.jpg
 
Well RJC won't be open for a couple of days so I thought I'd ask you guys since some of you are using it. What is the range of boost it can control (min. to max)? What is that gauge pictured on the website?
RJC-Boost-Controller.jpg

My thinking is the gauge is oil pres. As far as min/max I could not control it.
 
I have the RJC boost controller installed with a HD wastegate so the boost can be set from 18-30 lbs.


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Not exactly sure how low I can go with the RJC MBC (guessing 10-12 lbs). On the high end I could easily get to 30 lbs if I wanted to. This is with a standard duty wastegate.
 
My thinking is the gauge is oil pres. As far as min/max I could not control it.

What trouble did you have controlling it?

I have the RJC boost controller installed with a HD wastegate so the boost can be set from 18-30 lbs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So then the wastegate actuator will dictate the minimum setting. That makes sense. I'd like a way to lower boost to 10 psi if wanted. This would require an actuator with a 10 psi rated spring I guess. Is the range in lbs of boost 12? If your max boost is 30 that would be a 12 psi swing.
 
Not exactly sure how low I can go with the RJC MBC (guessing 10-12 lbs). On the high end I could easily get to 30 lbs if I wanted to. This is with a standard duty wastegate.

This sounds promising. How hard is it to dial it in where you want it?
 
What trouble did you have controlling it?



So then the wastegate actuator will dictate the minimum setting. That makes sense. I'd like a way to lower boost to 10 psi if wanted. This would require an actuator with a 10 psi rated spring I guess. Is the range in lbs of boost 12? If your max boost is 30 that would be a 12 psi swing.

No matter what I did , I got 30 psi. Even with out the RJC,running it tuner style got 30 psi. Went back to the internal, and now at 25 max psi. Can turn it down to 16, however no lower.
 
This sounds promising. How hard is it to dial it in where you want it?
Not hard at all. Similar to adjusting a regular wastegate. I just started out with RJC MBC screwed in just a couple turns (lowest boost), go for a test ride, and tighten it up (to increase boost) until you're where you want to be. 1 full turn equals about 1 psi. I've read you can also set it with compressed air but that kinda takes the fun out of making test hits trying to dial it in :D
 
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You can try cutting a ring or 2 off the spring in the RjC BC, it will bring the boost range lower. That's what I did to bring the boost to the 17lb range with a standard wastegate auclator.
 
What trouble did you have controlling it?



So then the wastegate actuator will dictate the minimum setting. That makes sense. I'd like a way to lower boost to 10 psi if wanted. This would require an actuator with a 10 psi rated spring I guess. Is the range in lbs of boost 12? If your max boost is 30 that would be a 12 psi swing.
The wastegate bypass cross section will dictate the lowest setting possible. Remove the actuator arm and hold it wot all the way through 3rd. Whatever boost it makes is the minimum it can make. Doesn't matter what controller is used. You will need a large bypass to run only 10psi unless you are running close to a stock turbo. Usually a very light spring (in an external gate) with an external source of pressure and a good smart electronic controller is required to have a wide swing of adjustability. You can open the bypass up to whatever size puck you have and then buy a few plates with no hole. Then you can make multiple plates with multiple hole sizes. The bigger the hole the lower the boost with any given wastegate tension. Big hole with light tension equals low boost. Small hole with heavy tension equals high boost. Trying to go below 70% of the mass flow potential of a turbo requires a very large bypass typically. The cracking point of the puck can be calculated if you know the spring tension, actuator diaphragm cross section, actuator pressure, leverage (or lack of), cross section of the puck, and exhaust pressure. There's no set in stone 1 turn equals 1 psi or any other internet fantasy. With my turbo all in I can still shorten the rod 5 more turns yet it doesn't matter because the tension is so high and the exhaust pressure not high enough to overcome it even with the pressure port on the diaphragm plumbed off the compressor cover where it's hitting the actuator with the highest possible pressure.
If it takes 40psi of exhaust pressure to spin a turbine to flow 70lbs/min of air on the compressor side then there has to be a minimum mass flow to create the 40psi. The difference would be what needs to be wastegated to prevent over boost not taking into account mechanical limitations like the hub bursting from over speed


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
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The wastegate bypass cross section will dictate the lowest setting possible. Remove the actuator arm and hold it wot all the way through 3rd. Whatever boost it makes is the minimum it can make. Doesn't matter what controller is used. You will need a large bypass to run only 10psi unless you are running close to a stock turbo. Usually a very light spring (in an external gate) with an external source of pressure and a good smart electronic controller is required to have a wide swing of adjustability. You can open the bypass up to whatever size puck you have and then buy a few plates with no hole. Then you can make multiple plates with multiple hole sizes. The bigger the hole the lower the boost with any given wastegate tension. Big hole with light tension equals low boost. Small hole with heavy tension equals high boost. Trying to go below 70% of the mass flow potential of a turbo requires a very large bypass typically. The cracking point of the puck can be calculated if you know the spring tension, actuator diaphragm cross section, actuator pressure, leverage (or lack of), cross section of the puck, and exhaust pressure. There's no set in stone 1 turn equals 1 psi or any other internet fantasy. With my turbo all in I can still shorten the rod 5 more turns yet it doesn't matter because the tension is so high and the exhaust pressure not high enough to overcome it even with the pressure port on the diaphragm plumbed off the compressor cover where it's hitting the actuator with the highest possible pressure.
If it takes 40psi of exhaust pressure to spin a turbine to flow 70lbs/min of air on the compressor side then there has to be a minimum mass flow to create the 40psi. The difference would be what needs to be wastegated to prevent over boost not taking into account mechanical limitations like the hub bursting from over speed


BPE2013@hotmail.com

My word , I would give my right foot to know what this man knows.
 
My word , I would give my right foot to know what this man knows.
It may seem complicated but it's really not. It's the difference of the sum of the forces in each direction with any leverage added or subtracted from. Most don't consider the exhaust pressure because it's rarely mentioned. If you have a puck with 1 square inch of surface area and 22psi exhaust pressure then 22 lbs of force is on the puck just from the exhaust. Then say you have a 2 square inch area on the diaphragm with 20psi in the actuator you have 40lbs of force to complement the exhaust. So 62lbs of force in one direction Then the actuator spring is exerting 55 lbs of force on the arm (not counting and leverages in either direction). The puck has moved because the forces in that direction overcome the force in the opposite direction. It's easy to see why this is so variable. Different size bypass holes, different wastegate tensions, devices that reduce or delay the signal to the actuator (often called controllers), leverage changes, different turbines/compressors in different exhaust housings, and on and on. So many factors. Then take into account the typical exhaust leaks that are found bleeding off pressure and people are really wondering why their car is slower than John Doe who has the same "stuff" when in reality Johns car doesn't have the same stuff. Johns car doesn't have the exhaust leaks, poor tune, etc. Instead his car runs like it should.


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
The wastegate bypass cross section will dictate the lowest setting possible. Remove the actuator arm and hold it wot all the way through 3rd. Whatever boost it makes is the minimum it can make. Doesn't matter what controller is used. You will need a large bypass to run only 10psi unless you are running close to a stock turbo. Usually a very light spring (in an external gate) with an external source of pressure and a good smart electronic controller is required to have a wide swing of adjustability. You can open the bypass up to whatever size puck you have and then buy a few plates with no hole. Then you can make multiple plates with multiple hole sizes. The bigger the hole the lower the boost with any given wastegate tension. Big hole with light tension equals low boost. Small hole with heavy tension equals high boost. Trying to go below 70% of the mass flow potential of a turbo requires a very large bypass typically. The cracking point of the puck can be calculated if you know the spring tension, actuator diaphragm cross section, actuator pressure, leverage (or lack of), cross section of the puck, and exhaust pressure. There's no set in stone 1 turn equals 1 psi or any other internet fantasy. With my turbo all in I can still shorten the rod 5 more turns yet it doesn't matter because the tension is so high and the exhaust pressure not high enough to overcome it even with the pressure port on the diaphragm plumbed off the compressor cover where it's hitting the actuator with the highest possible pressure.
If it takes 40psi of exhaust pressure to spin a turbine to flow 70lbs/min of air on the compressor side then there has to be a minimum mass flow to create the 40psi. The difference would be what needs to be wastegated to prevent over boost not taking into account mechanical limitations like the hub bursting from over speed


BPE2013@hotmail.com

So if I'm understanding this what you are saying is that the RJC boost controller will have nothing to do with minimum boost it would be possible to run. That is going to be a mechanical limitation. Whatever my wastegate hole can bypass exhaust wise will dictate the minimum boost the RJC controller can call for. So whether I run a HD actuator, stock actuator, custom springed actuator will have no affect on the minimum boost that it will be possible to run. The maximum boost will be dictated by my actuators abililty to overcome exhaust pressure and keep the puck closed. So the highest swing of controllable boost pressure would occur if I use an actuator that has enough diaphragm and spring to run a target (high) boost and have a wastegate hole big enough to bypass enough exhaust to keep boost at its lowest. Big hole, big puck, big spring and if diaphragm size is selectable get the big one to have the widest range of controllable boost.
 
So if I'm understanding this what you are saying is that the RJC boost controller will have nothing to do with minimum boost it would be possible to run. That is going to be a mechanical limitation. Whatever my wastegate hole can bypass exhaust wise will dictate the minimum boost the RJC controller can call for. So whether I run a HD actuator, stock actuator, custom springed actuator will have no affect on the minimum boost that it will be possible to run. The maximum boost will be dictated by my actuators abililty to overcome exhaust pressure and keep the puck closed. So the highest swing of controllable boost pressure would occur if I use an actuator that has enough diaphragm and spring to run a target (high) boost and have a wastegate hole big enough to bypass enough exhaust to keep boost at its lowest. Big hole, big puck, big spring and if diaphragm size is selectable get the big one to have the widest range of controllable boost.
The actuator can definitely have an effect because the tension it applies to the swing valve is a force holding it closed. Having a large bypass will cause a greater pressure drop when the puck uncovers the hole. The flow becomes just like an exhaust valve in a cylinder head. There's about unlimited possibilities playing with all the things that effect the boost.


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
Holy schnikeys. We're still talking about our cars right?
Yes. Still not really complicated. GM had it nailed down to the point that if full pressure from the cover was sent to the port in the actuator with no bleed off boost was just about rock solid at 10psi. You can verify this any time with a near stock car with the stock turbo, solenoid, and chip. Simply unplug the solenoid and go to WOT. 10psi boost. Stock cars have the same actuator, same bypass hole cross section and same pressure source. There's other things involved but it is very consistent


BPE2013@hotmail.com
 
The RJC controller helps with spooling some. I built my own years back and i have my wastegate rod adjusted so it only has to be pulled slightly to hook it on the lever. My minimum is 15# and it's normally set to 17/18#. My boost spikes on gear changes went away over the bleeder valve and tight adj wastegate rod.
 
Thanks guys I think I have it now. I had the RJC BIG PUCK installed in my downpipe. So I need to open the wastegate hole up as much as I can still maintaining complete coverage. This will reduce my minimum boost possible to run. Whatever spring is in the actuator will dictate the minimum boost by how much pressure is required to 'open the door' but because the door is bigger (in²) the exhaust pressure against the spring is multiplied by that higher number thus opening the door sooner and bypassing more exhaust and giving a lower minimum boost. It also reduces the maximum boost for the same reasons now you have to shorten the wastegate rod to increase spring tension for higher boost. And if I'm understanding you are also raising your minimum boost by shortening the rod because of increased spring tension and at some point you'll start to restrict the opening by not letting the puck swing far enough open.

Now its starting to make sense the advantages an external gate and controllers that used compress CO2 give.
 
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