TH400 The real answer

[charliep]

We have been running a good 2004R ($2500.00) behind a healthy Oldsmobile motor. Just hurt the trans for the 3rd time in two years. The car is driven on the street about 8,000 per year and 5-10 passes down the 1/4 mile. I really can't take this much more. What is the real world info on these transmissions. Just checked the fluid and it smells burnt so I'm sure the clutches are gone again????? I really need something that works. How about a TH400. We don't drive very long distances.

 

[TTA850]

Here's my experiences, been running a TH400 scince 2002 and have about 30K miles and at least 550 low11/high10 second passes with no problems aside from having the converter out a few times to suit an ever evolving combo and needs. I just had it out for a restall and figured I'd go through the trans scince it's been in there for so long and everything looked perfect.

Steve

 

[charliep]

TTA850 Thanks. Its very tough these day to get actual/real info on the net. You never know if your talking to some dreamer or a guy actually using and racing the product. I myself race a dragster but this trans is in my kids car. We orginally went with the 2004R after reading post like you see on this board. We spent a bunch of money probably twice what a 400 cost and have nothing but trouble. The Olds isn't that much of a killer motor. Low 13's on street tires. I think the lower torque curves on these motors are able to drive thru the clutches on the 2004R's. It's just like my C4 that was in my Mustang. Low 9 second car, best C4 I could buy but it would hurt clutches every 30-40 passes. Powerglide in my dragster, 100 plus passes still going strong. From what I'm reading the TH400 fits right in these cars. I assume you have to change the torque converter.

 

[bison]

TTA850 Thanks. Its very tough these day to get actual/real info on the net. You never know if your talking to some dreamer or a guy actually using and racing the product. I myself race a dragster but this trans is in my kids car. We orginally went with the 2004R after reading post like you see on this board. We spent a bunch of money probably twice what a 400 cost and have nothing but trouble. The Olds isn't that much of a killer motor. Low 13's on street tires. I think the lower torque curves on these motors are able to drive thru the clutches on the 2004R's. It's just like my C4 that was in my Mustang. Low 9 second car, best C4 I could buy but it would hurt clutches every 30-40 passes. Powerglide in my dragster, 100 plus passes still going strong. From what I'm reading the TH400 fits right in these cars. I assume you have to change the torque converter.

The 200-4R should easily withstand the performance levels that engine produces. What mods were done to the trans? What valvebody was used? Was the pressure rise system in the trans recalibrated? If you dont know the answers to this than it will be hard to advise. If you spent $2500 it should have a lot of good parts in it and should never experience clutch failure at those levels. Spending extra $ doesnt guarantee anything though unless its built correctly.

 

[Russ Merritt]

The 200-4R should easily withstand the performance levels that engine produces. What mods were done to the trans? What valvebody was used? Was the pressure rise system in the trans recalibrated? If you dont know the answers to this than it will be hard to advise. If you spent $2500 it should have a lot of good parts in it and should never experience clutch failure at those levels. Spending extra $ doesnt guarantee anything though unless its built correctly.

Exacty. Very well said.

 

[charliep]

I know all the answers to the questions. All the good stuff, Turbo regal valve body, extra clutches, roller assemblies, billet input shaft etc......Are you running a 200R4 and what power level.

 

[charliep]

Stupid question??? At the power level that everyone claims the trans can take and the cost in excess of $2500 bucks how come nobody gives a good warranty like one year on these things? After all I can't hurt it!!

 

[Spooled231]

Th400

We have been running a good 2004R ($2500.00) behind a healthy Oldsmobile motor. Just hurt the trans for the 3rd time in two years. The car is driven on the street about 8,000 per year and 5-10 passes down the 1/4 mile. I really can't take this much more. What is the real world info on these transmissions. Just checked the fluid and it smells burnt so I'm sure the clutches are gone again????? I really need something that works. How about a TH400. We don't drive very long distances.

I was in the same boat back in late 2002 with my 200r4 taking a dump on me that was built by a reputable shop within the TB community. The total TH400 conversion costed me $2300 bucks to have a tranny built with stock parts with the only upgrade being the 34 sprag since we were going to use a trans brake, torque converter, drive shaft, shifter, tranny pan. Currently today the trans has close to 200 passes in a car that ran 10.7's @ 124 from 2002 to 2004 and now 10.1's @ 132 in 2005 and 2006. I would say my return on investment has paid off. This coming winter I am planning on pulling the trans to freshin it up even though the fluid has been changed several times and did not show any signs of burnt fluid.

Thanks
John Martin
1986 Buick T-Type
10.16 @ 132 TSM class

 

[charliep]

Thanks John. It's great to hear from someone else who has had a similar experience. This 2004R was also built by a reputable builder and let it be known that he has been very good about repairing the transmission. It still never covers the R&R bill from the shop for the 3 removals of the cost of opening the converter 3 times to check it out and clean it but it does help. So doing the math no a good return on investment. Our plan is to call the builder and see if he is willing to replace the trans with a TH400. Seems like a good deal if you ask me. He gets a undrestructable 2004R back that he can put clutches in and sell for $2500 we get a good old $1200 dollar TH400.

 

[S2V6RACER]

You can get a Rossler Transmission starting at around $1300 with a T-brake and reverse manual valve body. There is speculation that others are "better" but I have not known anybody in the power levels we are running at that have had problems with his units and I cannot say enough for his customer service. His transmissions are custom built to your specifications and if you plan on going T-400, I recommend giving Carl at Rossler transmissions a call.

His T-brakes are custom built and their reaction time is excellent and I have yet to lose a race to one failing.


If you can stand to loose the OD on the street the T-400 is the way to go and put transmission problems as a thing of the past.

 

[norbs]

This is something i am thinking about, but not sure on the warrenty, it is rated for 900 hp and 750 ft torque, has lockup and t-brake. why lose the overdrive?


fb transmissions

 

[Louie L.]

At 10.80s my PMAC 200R4 was running like a champ. Never had any issues with it. I eventually swapped over to the TH400 when i decided to step up the program and the PMAC was solid and able to be sold.. At that time I didnt think the 200R4 would last and the real fancy 200s were lots of money. A local trans shop built me a TH400 with a transbrake. I have over 150 est. passes on it in 4 years. Never had any issues but with the transbrake early on. I have ran this trans from 10.60s to 9.20s. Still working great.There is nothing fancy inside and it still amazes me how durable they are.

 

[charliep]

I'm beginning to think that the real reason these 2004r hold up is due to the lack of low end torque of the turbo cars. The turbo's spool up a bit before making power. The N/A motor like our Olds motor makes power down low where the 1-2 shift is occuring. It seems like the turbo guys can live with them. We are going to see what we can do to switch over to a 400. We already have an aftermarket cross member and a B&M Pro stick.

 

[sprayed65]

I'm beginning to think that the real reason these 2004r hold up is due to the lack of low end torque of the turbo cars. The turbo's spool up a bit before making power. The N/A motor like our Olds motor makes power down low where the 1-2 shift is occuring. It seems like the turbo guys can live with them. We are going to see what we can do to switch over to a 400. We already have an aftermarket cross member and a B&M Pro stick.

if you want to keep overdrive you can go with a newer 4L80E transmission out of a late model truck (think 99+). They are extremely durable, as durable as a th400 because they are based off the 400 except GM added overdrive

 

[charliep]

4L80E looks like a beefy trans but with and extra 100 lbs over a TH400 I don't need the overdrive that much.

 

[Jeff Rand]

I also spent a bunch of money on a 200 4R (it has every billet part that has been made for these transmissions) and was only getting 25-30 passes before it would have flair up issues on the 2-3 shifts. I purchased a 400 from Chris Lyons and it was sent from Lonnie Diers shop in Ohio. Well long story short after going through my issues with the 200 4R Lonnie convinced me to send it to him for a modification and rebuild (the cost was one third of what I was typically paying). He said if it did not hold up for a year he would rebuild the trans. for free. That was 8 months ago and I have not gone over to the 400.
Jeff

 

[charliep]

Jeff,

That's great to hear. We are going to see what our current trans builder has to say tonight. I would really rather switch over to the 400 and be done with it

 

[norbs]

i would never drive a car without overdrive, but thats just me. Not driving 120 miles to the track @3800 rpm, the fuel would be insane. I may go to the 4l80e and electronic shift points, so i can have a program for mushy shifts at no boost and higher line pressures at full boost. Cost is about 3k no mattter what you do, plus 600 for the shift computer.

 

[jakeshoe]

4L80E looks like a beefy trans but with and extra 100 lbs over a TH400 I don't need the overdrive that much.

I don't know where these extremely over exaggerated weights come from for these transmission.

I personally weighed a complete TH350 short shaft, TH400 short shaft, and 4L80E I have in the shop about a month ago.
The Th350 is almost exactly 125 lbs. The TH400 is 135 lbs, and the 4L80E is 173 lbs.

Thas is approximately a 40 lb difference, not 100...

 

[norbs]

Could you get a 3500 stall lockup for a 4l80e though is the question? How much does a gear vendor weigh attached to a 400?