Suggestions for FAST
- Thread starter tazgn
- Start date
Craig Smith
That was easy!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
We are looking at making the unit so that you can connect to your existing wiring harness and have an additional connector on the ECU for the extra stuff it will do. Don't know if that will happen yet.
No price info yet, sorry.
No price info yet, sorry.
If you feel that why then why did you buy it over the Gen 7? From your above post it seems like you got it within the last couple monthes, and I remember reading about the Gen 7 for quite a while before that.
To call it primitive is a little excessive. It works real well, and will continue to do so as listed above. No doubt these new features will be nice, but you know that once you step up and buy something, something better always comes along. Will the value drop on our FAST units--- yes. It sucks, but I won't sell it anyways because it still functions well for a all out race item. I don't have AC and all the other B.S. on my race car. There is a market out there still. The new FAST will be priced higher anyways( I would have to a$$ume), so $$ will be the deciding factor with some.
Craig Smith
That was easy!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
TD2593,
Don't consider yourself a thorn in the side. I consider you a customer with a legitimate complaint and we are taking steps to correct this in the future.
Feel free to post any questions you may have and I'll do my best to answer them for you.
Don't consider yourself a thorn in the side. I consider you a customer with a legitimate complaint and we are taking steps to correct this in the future.
Feel free to post any questions you may have and I'll do my best to answer them for you.
TD2593,
Since you consider it "primitive", how about you step up and give a few suggestions for what the next model should include then? Tell us what you don't like about the present system, and throw out some ideas for the new system! In addition to listing solutions for your current dislikes, try to brainstorm a bit and invent some way-out concepts. Even if one particular idea can't be employed, maybe your suggestion will spark another idea in someone elses mind.
Here are a couple more that I came up with-
It would be nice for the fan to run in the lanes for a while automatically. How about a setting that allows the fans to stay on for 5 minutes after the car is shut off?
Maybe also a seperate output for an electric water pump (that would also run for 5 minutes after the ignition is shut off between runs?).
And hardware wise, right now I have a bunch of relays all over the place- a couple fuel pump relays on the firewall, fan relays up next to the headlight, nitrous relays on a fender, fuses hither and yon, etc.- maybe a small relay panel that has one neat cable or harness going to it? Many newer applications wouldn't need this, but for retrofits to older cars, a relay center would neaten things up a lot. Maybe have a single communications cable to a slave computer with the digital outputs at the relay center, a high amperage input & ground cable, and then all the outputs on the other side. That would neaten up my engine compartment a lot... (I'm not guessing this would be cheap, but it would make custom-wiring the car a lot nicer and probably make the harness a lot cheaper)...
And while we're at it, I'd like my torque convertor in high stall when the engine is below 1000 RPM, or below 3200 RPM at WOT. Or maybe instead of 2 RPM setpoints, it could stay on for 3 seconds after I exceed 1500 RPM. Of course if you run a lockup instead of a switch pitch, maybe you want it to lock after the engine is at a steady RPM for 10 seconds, or under certain conditions on the track (i.e. in third gear over 4000 RPM). Tell ya what- maybe you can put some logic in there for us to control ourselves.
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
Since you consider it "primitive", how about you step up and give a few suggestions for what the next model should include then? Tell us what you don't like about the present system, and throw out some ideas for the new system! In addition to listing solutions for your current dislikes, try to brainstorm a bit and invent some way-out concepts. Even if one particular idea can't be employed, maybe your suggestion will spark another idea in someone elses mind.
Here are a couple more that I came up with-
It would be nice for the fan to run in the lanes for a while automatically. How about a setting that allows the fans to stay on for 5 minutes after the car is shut off?
Maybe also a seperate output for an electric water pump (that would also run for 5 minutes after the ignition is shut off between runs?).
And hardware wise, right now I have a bunch of relays all over the place- a couple fuel pump relays on the firewall, fan relays up next to the headlight, nitrous relays on a fender, fuses hither and yon, etc.- maybe a small relay panel that has one neat cable or harness going to it? Many newer applications wouldn't need this, but for retrofits to older cars, a relay center would neaten things up a lot. Maybe have a single communications cable to a slave computer with the digital outputs at the relay center, a high amperage input & ground cable, and then all the outputs on the other side. That would neaten up my engine compartment a lot... (I'm not guessing this would be cheap, but it would make custom-wiring the car a lot nicer and probably make the harness a lot cheaper)...
And while we're at it, I'd like my torque convertor in high stall when the engine is below 1000 RPM, or below 3200 RPM at WOT. Or maybe instead of 2 RPM setpoints, it could stay on for 3 seconds after I exceed 1500 RPM. Of course if you run a lockup instead of a switch pitch, maybe you want it to lock after the engine is at a steady RPM for 10 seconds, or under certain conditions on the track (i.e. in third gear over 4000 RPM). Tell ya what- maybe you can put some logic in there for us to control ourselves.
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
A
AEkrot
Guest
I know just the ECU that will control fans just right, let you know when you forget to turn off your headlights, etc - it's the FACTORY ECU on a stock car. 
If you want a straight forward "RACER tunable" system (read 45 minutes between rounds to make a quick tuning change, refuel, re-ice, tire pressure, belt check, coolant check/drain, take a piss, etc) the IN MY HONEST OPINION, the FAST ECU does a very good job.
The first suggestions I read seem very reasonable for the NEXT GENERATION of the system (e.g. more I/O's that would benefit RACER's in tuning and improving their performance like front wheel speed sensor, EGT sensor inputs and the like)
What I am reading in many of the above posts is a strong market demand for a more complicated and tunable system that attempts to do everything a FACTORY ECU does and then some - say PRO-STREET type of applications.
Most racers like the simple nature of the present FAST ECU and SW. What I am seeing is need for TWO separate products in the future.
Most of the extras are mostly Software/Firmware related work to implement so perhaps the new HW ECU platform will be able to support either application without adding to much additional cost to the bare bones RACER version (most of the extra HW cost will be additional I/O's, more memory and a faster uP).
Alex
If you want a straight forward "RACER tunable" system (read 45 minutes between rounds to make a quick tuning change, refuel, re-ice, tire pressure, belt check, coolant check/drain, take a piss, etc) the IN MY HONEST OPINION, the FAST ECU does a very good job.
The first suggestions I read seem very reasonable for the NEXT GENERATION of the system (e.g. more I/O's that would benefit RACER's in tuning and improving their performance like front wheel speed sensor, EGT sensor inputs and the like)
What I am reading in many of the above posts is a strong market demand for a more complicated and tunable system that attempts to do everything a FACTORY ECU does and then some - say PRO-STREET type of applications.
Most racers like the simple nature of the present FAST ECU and SW. What I am seeing is need for TWO separate products in the future.
Most of the extras are mostly Software/Firmware related work to implement so perhaps the new HW ECU platform will be able to support either application without adding to much additional cost to the bare bones RACER version (most of the extra HW cost will be additional I/O's, more memory and a faster uP).
Alex
Ok, what we need is for the ECU to have a complete CD ignition built right into the unit, this will eliminate the need for an external unit such as MSD or whatever....... And the ignition will be correct for the FAST unit, no more Ive got the wrong MSD series or .....
All options should be user controlled and able to inable or disable at user discretion, no more Ive gotta send my box back to have this turned on or upgraded. Write a better more user friendly software with real paper book instruction. And for god sake put enough outputs and processing power to do IAC along with other optoins. Im not interested in any street car functions as I wouldnt us'em anyway, But TCC lock up would be one of the things I added.
All options should be user controlled and able to inable or disable at user discretion, no more Ive gotta send my box back to have this turned on or upgraded. Write a better more user friendly software with real paper book instruction. And for god sake put enough outputs and processing power to do IAC along with other optoins. Im not interested in any street car functions as I wouldnt us'em anyway, But TCC lock up would be one of the things I added.
How about incorporating the datalogger right in the ECU, which can be dumped later on to the laptop? That would eliminate the need for a laptop in the car (which slides around during acceleration).
And maybe you could time-stamp each data point (this was the run we did at 7:00, this was the run we did at 8:30, etc.).
And the log could be set up so you could record *whenever* a condition is met- that way I could take 10 runs during the day, go home that night, upload the runs to my laptop, and analyze them.
And one more thing- have a tach output directly from the ECM. And of course you can drive the tach during playback (if the laptop is connected to the ECM)...
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
And maybe you could time-stamp each data point (this was the run we did at 7:00, this was the run we did at 8:30, etc.).
And the log could be set up so you could record *whenever* a condition is met- that way I could take 10 runs during the day, go home that night, upload the runs to my laptop, and analyze them.
And one more thing- have a tach output directly from the ECM. And of course you can drive the tach during playback (if the laptop is connected to the ECM)...
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
Fast SN-95
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2002
I'd like to see a built in 2 step, programmable inputs/outputs, and lose the keying of the wideband. Individually programmable RPM and MAP cells (like the GEN VII) would be nice. Take a look at the AEM system. They seem to have a lot of really nice features too.
One thing that I think you could add to the existing box, via a software and firmware update, would be an overboost ignition cut. If the wastegate fails or something, it would be nice to have the FAST cut the ignition before the motor blows...
One thing that I think you could add to the existing box, via a software and firmware update, would be an overboost ignition cut. If the wastegate fails or something, it would be nice to have the FAST cut the ignition before the motor blows...
AEM
BOOST CONTROL!!!
this is BY FAR the biggest glaring omission from the FAST... i see 6 and 7 second turbo cars using this ECU but they have no way of controlling boost with it... on a street car, a boost vs. road speed (or boost vs. tps) table is invaluable...
the AEM was mentioned... let me try to say this plainly: the AEM will replace all other ecu's if the other companies do not step up with *considerably* more features/dollar... i'm sure that statement will catch a lot of flack, but take a look at what i got for $1300:
the obvious, complete fuel and spark control, accel/decel fueling, warm up enrichment, idle control, etc...
17 load "rows" and 21 rpm "columns", all of which are adjustable to be at whatever values you want (ie. they don't have to be evenly spread out)... this is a big win for running 18psi for example... no need to have the wasted rows of a FAST 3-bar setup, nor the lack of range of the 2-bar setup...
wastegate control (based on road speed or TPS) , 10 injector drivers, 5 coil drivers (up to 10 cylinder in wasted spark), 4 High side outputs (+12V), 12 Low side outputs (ground)... all are configurable to activate at a specified load, coolant temp, rpm, and tps %... there are also extra idle air (pwm) outputs and fuel pump outputs, as well as a completely user-defined PW output with its own load vs. rpm table... this is often used for alcohol/water injection or similar...
input wise, you can hook up multiple speed sensors, EGTs, temp sensors, 2 O2 sensors, 2 knock sensors, etc... and you can program a response to these devices... you can modify fuel and timing in resonse to EGT input, knock input, coolant temp, air temp, etc...
all inputs are programmable and can be used with any type of sensor... ie. you aren't tied to having a GM coolant temp sensor, you simply enter a table of X volts equals Y degrees and away you go... same thing with the o2 sensor, MAP sensor, TPS, etc... you can use a DIY wideband, an FJO, a horriba, an NTK, you name it...
automapping - drive around with the wideband o2 and have it autoprogram your VE table...
automatic transmission control...
on board memory for logging without the laptop... or if you use your PC, you can build a graphical dashboard to display input from the ECU in any way you like (analog looking gauges, bar graphs, plain numbers, etc.)... the logging utility allows you to apply math formulas to the data if you like, so you could do things like compute HP based on the rate of acceleration (since the ECU understands road speed)...
a/c control (along with a programmable idle jack to prevent stalling), nitrous control (with extra fuel and timing maps), staged injection (two sets of injectors, primary and secondary), two rev limiters (programmable to pull fuel, spark or both), etc.
mass air or speed density...
firmware upgrades performed by the user through the software...
that's just everything i can think of off the top of my head... this thing will do A LOT...
oh, and did i mention that it simply plugged in to my factory wiring harness? not a single wire needed to be cut... unplug the factory ECU and plug this one in instead... 10 minute install...
i've been very pleased with the results of my FAST on my camaro... but when i recently needed to buy an ECU for another project car i couldn't pass up the AEM for the *price*... in the past, i knew a system like the Motec had tons of flexibility, but for $5000+ i wasn't interested...
hopefully, Craig and Lance don't see this as an attack, but rather a heads-up... i didn't build the AEM, i'm not the competition... but somebody would have to be crazy not to consider such a flexible, feature-rich system at that kind of price point...
BOOST CONTROL!!!
this is BY FAR the biggest glaring omission from the FAST... i see 6 and 7 second turbo cars using this ECU but they have no way of controlling boost with it... on a street car, a boost vs. road speed (or boost vs. tps) table is invaluable...
the AEM was mentioned... let me try to say this plainly: the AEM will replace all other ecu's if the other companies do not step up with *considerably* more features/dollar... i'm sure that statement will catch a lot of flack, but take a look at what i got for $1300:
the obvious, complete fuel and spark control, accel/decel fueling, warm up enrichment, idle control, etc...
17 load "rows" and 21 rpm "columns", all of which are adjustable to be at whatever values you want (ie. they don't have to be evenly spread out)... this is a big win for running 18psi for example... no need to have the wasted rows of a FAST 3-bar setup, nor the lack of range of the 2-bar setup...
wastegate control (based on road speed or TPS) , 10 injector drivers, 5 coil drivers (up to 10 cylinder in wasted spark), 4 High side outputs (+12V), 12 Low side outputs (ground)... all are configurable to activate at a specified load, coolant temp, rpm, and tps %... there are also extra idle air (pwm) outputs and fuel pump outputs, as well as a completely user-defined PW output with its own load vs. rpm table... this is often used for alcohol/water injection or similar...
input wise, you can hook up multiple speed sensors, EGTs, temp sensors, 2 O2 sensors, 2 knock sensors, etc... and you can program a response to these devices... you can modify fuel and timing in resonse to EGT input, knock input, coolant temp, air temp, etc...
all inputs are programmable and can be used with any type of sensor... ie. you aren't tied to having a GM coolant temp sensor, you simply enter a table of X volts equals Y degrees and away you go... same thing with the o2 sensor, MAP sensor, TPS, etc... you can use a DIY wideband, an FJO, a horriba, an NTK, you name it...
automapping - drive around with the wideband o2 and have it autoprogram your VE table...
automatic transmission control...
on board memory for logging without the laptop... or if you use your PC, you can build a graphical dashboard to display input from the ECU in any way you like (analog looking gauges, bar graphs, plain numbers, etc.)... the logging utility allows you to apply math formulas to the data if you like, so you could do things like compute HP based on the rate of acceleration (since the ECU understands road speed)...
a/c control (along with a programmable idle jack to prevent stalling), nitrous control (with extra fuel and timing maps), staged injection (two sets of injectors, primary and secondary), two rev limiters (programmable to pull fuel, spark or both), etc.
mass air or speed density...
firmware upgrades performed by the user through the software...
that's just everything i can think of off the top of my head... this thing will do A LOT...
oh, and did i mention that it simply plugged in to my factory wiring harness? not a single wire needed to be cut... unplug the factory ECU and plug this one in instead... 10 minute install...
i've been very pleased with the results of my FAST on my camaro... but when i recently needed to buy an ECU for another project car i couldn't pass up the AEM for the *price*... in the past, i knew a system like the Motec had tons of flexibility, but for $5000+ i wasn't interested...
hopefully, Craig and Lance don't see this as an attack, but rather a heads-up... i didn't build the AEM, i'm not the competition... but somebody would have to be crazy not to consider such a flexible, feature-rich system at that kind of price point...
Superskwrl
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
I saw the AEM system last nov. it def looked very trick but i'm in no position to be a guinea pig, does anyone have one of these systems on a V8??
last year they said they wanted the V8 market but would start with the imports because thats there customer base
last year they said they wanted the V8 market but would start with the imports because thats there customer base
the EEC-4 version will be out at the end of the year... that will open up to a huge market of value-seeking mustang owners... EEC-5 will be early '03 so then you'll see newer 'stang and lightning owners... so far, i don't know of any V8s... i do know of a couple 1000+rwhp I6's though
i'd say its a pretty safe move (ie. the guinea pig phase is past) if they make a version for your platform... the come pre-tuned for the application... when we plugged one into my friend's car all i had to do was set the min and max TPS voltage in the software... the car literally drove around just like stock, i couldn't believe it... not a single stall, surge, buck, anything...
i'd say its a pretty safe move (ie. the guinea pig phase is past) if they make a version for your platform... the come pre-tuned for the application... when we plugged one into my friend's car all i had to do was set the min and max TPS voltage in the software... the car literally drove around just like stock, i couldn't believe it... not a single stall, surge, buck, anything...
How about a feature to eliminate transitional knock?
At WOT, you could tell the ECU that when it exceeds X RPM to retard the timing Y degrees until you go below Z RPMs.
So if I shift at 5600 RPM, I would set the high (X) for 5500 RPM and the low (Z) for 4000 RPM, to retard by 6 (Y) degrees.
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
(who's specialty is taking simple concepts and explaining them in a confusing manner)
At WOT, you could tell the ECU that when it exceeds X RPM to retard the timing Y degrees until you go below Z RPMs.
So if I shift at 5600 RPM, I would set the high (X) for 5500 RPM and the low (Z) for 4000 RPM, to retard by 6 (Y) degrees.
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
(who's specialty is taking simple concepts and explaining them in a confusing manner)
Scott-
As far as I know, it is not - unless there are some parameters floating around in there that I've never seen.
Obviously I wasn't clear, so I'll try again- I was suggesting pulling some timing out during a shift. In other words you might have 36 degrees timing during normal acceleration, but when you're shifting the timing gets pulled back to 28 degrees to reduce the pinging that sometimes occurs during a shift. This might be accomplished in a couple of ways:
1) (Proactive) When the engine reaches a certain RPM (so the ECU knows that a shift is about to happen), the timing gets pulled back by a few degrees until after the shift has taken place. You would have to tell the ECM what shift points you're going to use, and where the RPMs will drop to after the shift.
2) (Reactive) The ECU could monitor the rate of acceleration of the RPMs- when the engine speed slows quickly, the ECU will realize that the engine is being shifted, and pull the timing back a few degrees.
Does that makes sense?
Ted A.-, in a seperate post, Craig said that they were anticipating late spring / early summer for release of a new unit.
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
As far as I know, it is not - unless there are some parameters floating around in there that I've never seen.
Obviously I wasn't clear, so I'll try again- I was suggesting pulling some timing out during a shift. In other words you might have 36 degrees timing during normal acceleration, but when you're shifting the timing gets pulled back to 28 degrees to reduce the pinging that sometimes occurs during a shift. This might be accomplished in a couple of ways:
1) (Proactive) When the engine reaches a certain RPM (so the ECU knows that a shift is about to happen), the timing gets pulled back by a few degrees until after the shift has taken place. You would have to tell the ECM what shift points you're going to use, and where the RPMs will drop to after the shift.
2) (Reactive) The ECU could monitor the rate of acceleration of the RPMs- when the engine speed slows quickly, the ECU will realize that the engine is being shifted, and pull the timing back a few degrees.
Does that makes sense?
Ted A.-, in a seperate post, Craig said that they were anticipating late spring / early summer for release of a new unit.
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
Keeping the future in mind, how about the ability to handle drive-by-wire?
Also, if you do progressive nitrous control, maybe the timing should be retarded in proportion to the amount of nitrous being added...
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
Also, if you do progressive nitrous control, maybe the timing should be retarded in proportion to the amount of nitrous being added...
-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org
Craig Smith
That was easy!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Drive by wire shouldn't be a problem. The TB should still have a TPS on it that would send a signal to the ECU. The only difference with drive by wire is that the gas pedal and TB have no physical coupling.
Timing retards for nitrous tuning will always be left to the tuner. Many people do lots of different things.
Thanks - keep em coming! We're still listening.
Timing retards for nitrous tuning will always be left to the tuner. Many people do lots of different things.
Thanks - keep em coming! We're still listening.
I was thinking more if you were to do the progressive nitrous shot- if you have a 250Hp shot and 12 degrees of retard, at 50% of the nitrous, you could have 50% of the retard.
And maybe if you can *control* the drive-by-wire, you could do an RPM-based cruise control...
-Bob
And maybe if you can *control* the drive-by-wire, you could do an RPM-based cruise control...
-Bob
blownvette
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
any chance for a active duel map option for boosted cars. Thinking about a one bar map for idle/cruise and after a limit is passed switches to a 2-5 bar map screen for WOT.
