Stage 2 Twin Turbo

[Nick Micale]

Chris did such a good job in his information above, I can us it as a pattern to give details of the engine I posted.

1. All the detail specs for this build have been documented and go with the engine. It was professionally done by a very experienced and capable builder.

2. This same build has developed over 1500 HP on Ken D's dyno.

3. The block is a TA off-center and is 273 cu. in.

4. The crank is a billet Crower 3.625" which currently has a list price of $2700.

5. Rods are Crower 6.300" billet.

6. Pistons are JE with a .927 pin and 40 cc dish.

7. Cam is a billet solid roller with a custom grind.

8. Heads are TA Se alum with paired rockers, and have extensive port work done including a Champion intake that has been port matched.

9. We have extensive experience in building high-end stainless performance headers for many vehicles including turbo Buicks.

 

[magee]

Very good info, thanks guys.

 

[Mac in SD]

Okay well I'm just going to come out and say it. I want a twin turbo 800 hp GN. Don't know the specifics of engines, I'm more of a suspension set-up guy, but I was wondering whether to go with a stage 2 motor or a production motor. I'm looking for as much reliability as possible. I remember seeing ESP Performance having a twin-t kit but can't find anything about them anymore on the internet. Please somebody help me out. I was thinking price range in $13000 to $20000. Thanks!

Look, everyone's got their idea of what an S2 should be built for. Luckycrash stated he was looking for 800 HP, and next thing you know some guys are talking 1000 and 1500 HP.

My point was that a solid, run all day, 800 HP S2 could be built for much less than the $20K stated. Hell, Nick shows $18K for a pro-built, all-new 1500 HP engine! A great deal. Neal just bought 2 complete S2's for $5K. Do they need different pistons and cam, headers, modified intake, etc? Sure. Sell the other engine to pay for those. That's what I'm talking about.

An S2 isn't made of unobtanium and gold. It doesn't have to be an all-out, 8-second combo in a tube-framed, carbon-fiber bodied race car, either. It can be a durable, 600-800 HP engine just for fun.

Of course, if you really feel the need to pay full retail and you have the means, then go for it. I'm just saying you don't have to.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Here is what you can get for $18K. If you make it an even $20k we will do custom SS twin turbo headers.

For your info this fresh build has a billet Crower 3.625" crank, Crower rods, JE pistons and all the other internals to handle in excess of 1400 HP!

That's a great deal. I had over 20k in the first build with DLS and I provided the block and the heads!!!!

 

[Luckycrash]

Basically the 800 hp twin turbo is to get rid of turbo lag because the plan for the car is to set it up for pro-touring. Looking for a 4L80e trans right now so I can run a paddle shifter but yeah thanks for the advice. The reliability of the motor is the biggest issue.

 

[quickt]

Basically the 800 hp twin turbo is to get rid of turbo lag because the plan for the car is to set it up for pro-touring. Looking for a 4L80e trans right now so I can run a paddle shifter but yeah thanks for the advice. The reliability of the motor is the biggest issue.

800HP pretty easy task. You wont need twins to get that done. A 70 or 76 on a 274" will have no turbo lag. The 4L80 will allow plenty of stall with lock-up so your good to go.

 

[rag231]

twins and 800hp

If I remember correctly, I had twin 58mm Borg Warner turbos on a 270 motor that I paid about $400 a piece for made 758hp with like 17 -19lbs of boost. The whole combo was wrong and it wasn't a carefully thought out process. I know with today's modern technology a matched pair of tiny turbos can get you there and probably some 52's will get you a little more. Low boost ,instant spool, 800hp, Like many have said if you didn't want brand new and ultra precision, the motor could be bought and put together with a 400 trans that will hold that power for under 10k.

 

[twistedwh1]

i built my twin turbo stage 2 with stage 2 heads less than 20k. this pic is from last fall. still under construction. they do take alot of time and fabracating.

 

[Otto J]

i built my twin turbo stage 2 with stage 2 heads less than 20k. this pic is from last fall. still under construction. they do take alot of time and fabracating.

That thinkg running yet?

 

[twistedwh1]

not yet lol soon i hope

 

[Boost231]

not yet lol soon i hope

ive been waiting to see this beast in action

 

[Luckycrash]

i built my twin turbo stage 2 with stage 2 heads less than 20k. this pic is from last fall. still under construction. they do take alot of time and fabracating.

Nice build, a little overkill for what I'm looking for tho.

 

[Mac in SD]

Nice build, a little overkill for what I'm looking for tho.

Really? You don't want your downpipes coming through your fenders?

 

[750H.P.V6]

Yes, you may buy a beat up stage motor and build it for that with welded up crank and used up junk.
A couple local guys went the cheap route and their cars run like ass.....
7-8 for a bargain motor, then buy a turbo,headers,downpipe,intercooler, transmission, rear end, suspension, fuel pump, inj's, efi intake, throttle body, fuel management system,flexplate, balancer, oil pump, fuel lines and fittings etc etc etc, and you'll be done in no time LOL.:biggrin:

I used to own your motor before I sold it to the guy you bought it from. Wanna guess what I paid for it?

Neal

 

[Cheeseburger]

I used to own your motor before I sold it to the guy you bought it from. Wanna guess what I paid for it?

Neal

The only thing left that was usable for a turbo application was: Block,Crank,front cover,Bare heads,intake( which needed to be converted for efi), i assume you bought it as a Busch motor complete.
Probably got a great deal $2500-$4000 at the time as a Busch motor, if you have any more please strap them on a pallet and send them my way. Cash in hand waiting!
That also applies for fresh complete Buick Stage II turbo motors converted to EFI for $6-$7k, cash in hand waiting.........let's see how many reply.

The problem with saying that you can get a killer deal on these motors is that when you go to sell some people assume they are only worth $5000-$7000 including turbo/headers/intake/oil pan etc because such and such got a deal so they are all worth nothing without having a clue what really needs to be done to make them turbo friendly.
In a sence i am trying to protect my investment hear by not having some get the wrong impression.
Sure you can find a Busch motor for around 5k, but as you know to make it turbo friendly properly it really adds up dollar wise to do it right!
To be 100% honest i stopped writing down how much i spent under the hood when i reached $19,800 and i did the assembly, took anything that needed to be machined to the machine shop myself and told them the specs i wanted, also assembled the heads myself did the re and re......i did everything myself and it still cost an arm and leg.
You can get a Busch motor for around 5k the very odd time now, but for the inexperienced it is not even close to being turbo friendly.

 

[Cheeseburger]

Here is what you can get for $18K. If you make it an even $20k we will do custom SS twin turbo headers.

For your info this fresh build has a billet Crower 3.625" crank, Crower rods, JE pistons and all the other internals to handle in excess of 1400 HP!

Nick, you need to get with the times, apparently these can be had for 7-8k now lol!

 

[Luckycrash]

Here is what you can get for $18K. If you make it an even $20k we will do custom SS twin turbo headers.

For your info this fresh build has a billet Crower 3.625" crank, Crower rods, JE pistons and all the other internals to handle in excess of 1400 HP!

Nick what size bore is that? I know this is sort of stupid but any way to make that engine cheaper = less horsepower? What size turbos would you run on it to get 750 h.p. to 850 h.p. depending on the boost?

Once again thanks everyone for schooling me on stage II motors!

 

[750H.P.V6]

The only thing left that was usable for a turbo application was: Block,Crank,front cover,Bare heads,intake( which needed to be converted for efi), i assume you bought it as a Busch motor complete.
Probably got a great deal $2500-$4000 at the time as a Busch motor, if you have any more please strap them on a pallet and send them my way. Cash in hand waiting!
That also applies for fresh complete Buick Stage II turbo motors converted to EFI for $6-$7k, cash in hand waiting.........let's see how many reply.

The problem with saying that you can get a killer deal on these motors is that when you go to sell some people assume they are only worth $5000-$7000 including turbo/headers/intake/oil pan etc because such and such got a deal so they are all worth nothing without having a clue what really needs to be done to make them turbo friendly.
In a sence i am trying to protect my investment hear by not having some get the wrong impression.
Sure you can find a Busch motor for around 5k, but as you know to make it turbo friendly properly it really adds up dollar wise to do it right!
To be 100% honest i stopped writing down how much i spent under the hood when i reached $19,800 and i did the assembly, took anything that needed to be machined to the machine shop myself and told them the specs i wanted, also assembled the heads myself did the re and re......i did everything myself and it still cost an arm and leg.
You can get a Busch motor for around 5k the very odd time now, but for the inexperienced it is not even close to being turbo friendly.

Mike,

I get where you're coming from and I was trying to inject a bit of perspective into the discussion. Racing is costly and the faster you want to go the more it will cost plain and simple. The more exotic and one off the combination is the more farbication will be required which you will either do yourself or pay hamdsomely for.

As with most all things they are only worth what someone will pay for them. This applies across the board to everything. Going back to Mac's statement I do believe he is into his engine combo for less than $10K. I could be wrong and it has been a while since we built it but it illustrates the point that it is possible. It's not an 8 second combo but it is a Stage II motor on what could be called a budget.

If you choose to buy everything new rather than keeping an eye on the classifieds for parts you need and doing some networking it will definately cost more. The same holds true for engine work and fabrication. If these aren't things you feel comfortable with it will cost. The price range is open.

Neal

 

[Nick Micale]

Nick what size bore is that? I know this is sort of stupid but any way to make that engine cheaper = less horsepower? What size turbos would you run on it to get 750 h.p. to 850 h.p. depending on the boost? ..........

The bore is 3.995".

There are only a couple ways to cut cost out of this build.

For the 1000-1200 HP level instead of the current 1500-1700 HP, we could use a forged crank and rods instead of billet pieces and save about $3000.

We could also save another $1000 in the heads when going from 1500 HP to 900-1000 HP.

At the 750-800 HP level a proper 70mm BB turbo will get you there easy and still be street friendly, and be competitive at the track.

This is NOT a guess, as my car is at this level, and a few others local GN's we have done run mid-9's, and are street legal [and driven!].

One other factor to consider is that all the parts, including the block, are NEW pieces, not some unknown used, and possibly abused, like the crank and rods.

Most of the stage engines are over 30 years old, and were used on oval tracks with 250 or 500 mile events. Some may have been through many of these events.

I know of many stage engines that have been built for turbo racing and lasted only a short time which is not just frustrating, but expensive. I am sure you understand racing, especially competitive racing, the engine is subjected to extreme loads and stress not seen on the street.

I admire you asking for help and info on your build, as the most important item in your plan is to establish your specific performance goals.

Of course if your budget is unlimited, you can specify the best of everything which is not my case, and probably not your either.

 

[Luckycrash]

At the 750-800 HP level a proper 70mm BB turbo will get you there easy and still be street friendly, and be competitive at the track.

What about running twin 52mm turbos (or too big)? I was thinking electronic waste-gates so the power doesn't over come the rear wheels through a turn (once again a pro-touring car is the goal of this build).

Thanks again