Series II L67 Grand National??!!??

[BEATAV8]

Cool swap! I like it. I don't know much about L67's but it obviously runs very well! All Buick all the way.

 

[Trannyman95]

I personally watched Steve from the board here run 10.6x on 275/60 drag radials in a full weight T-type driven to the track using a te-45a (similar turbo) with ported stock heads, stock block, stock crank, stock rods, and a 206 flat tappet and most importantly didn't have any custom made parts. The next owner went 10.5x. I'd be willing to bet it didn't cost any more than using a series 2 engine, everything just bolts together with no modifications, and when you factor in all the time making custom manifolds, downpipe, plumbing, etc. and gathering the parts to make it work and not being able to order a commonly available chip. I don't see any conceivable way you could say this is cheaper.

I still think it's pretty cool that you were able to get it to work and use an engine you can still find anywhere though.

Timeslips aside and being that the car ran what it did with zero prep and minimal tuning, low boost, etc, The cost of the swap is not the main focus here and until the car was finished and running we didnt know what to expect. I have driven my share of T-Type and GNs over the years doing trans rebuilds, not to this power level but regardless I know all too well what the drivability of the cars is. The Series 2 3800 is a completely different animal and you cant even begin to compare how this car drives as opposed to with the last engine in the car. There is almost no lag, boost comes on instantly anywhere in the powerband. Even on kickdowns its near instant. The throttle responce is just unbelievable for the build and it is unlike any LC2 car that I have driven whether stock or modded. After I finished the car and drive it the first time I was in pure shock with how it drove and that alone was well worth the cost put forth into this project. Sure we could have rebuild the old setup and still had the same setup with a better block, but it would still have been the same thing. Sometimes being different has its downside when it comes to custom engine swaps but this is one swap that was worth its weight in gold

 

[Scott Atk]

The SeriesII engines still have only 8 headbolts per side right? I wonder if the really fast guys have head lifting issues like we do with the 109 motors?

 

[Adam Connell]

dont need a full cage until 9.99 only need bar if slower then that

Ya, but... Im one of those guys that never stops modding... this week it may be 9.99... but next week that 8.50 certification might come in handy lol. Either way, this is a way cool car and it actually makes me want to get a damn 6er f-body like yours and build a killer sleeper setup and go win some cash

The only trick for me would be making the turbos quiet enough to not get noticed lol...

Im stoked about all of this because my new shop is opening up on friday! We are going to be rebuilding salvaged late model bikes(mostly cruisers) and building what we call "working class customs"... this also gives me space to bring my GN up here to college with me

either way I have "seen the light" on these late model 3.8s and Im pretty stoked! Is there a turbo 6 fbody forum around or any good places to read up on other peoples setups?

 

[Trannyman95]

The SeriesII engines still have only 8 headbolts per side right? I wonder if the really fast guys have head lifting issues like we do with the 109 motors?

This is another area of concern but when the Cometics became available it helped out a lot of the 20+ psi builds. A few guys have even drilled and tapped addtional holds in the head and block to add extra clamping force towards the outside of the head and block as it seemed that since the area was somewhat then here it was a potential leak area but I also know there are cars running mid to high 20s with a good build and not using the extra bolts without problems. I guess its hard to say since the hardcore guys take the car to the track only a few times a year and I am more of a daily driver guy that wants real world results and requirements but I have not experienced any problems with the head gaskets blowing out yet though it certainly does happen.

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Ya, but... Im one of those guys that never stops modding... this week it may be 9.99... but next week that 8.50 certification might come in handy lol. Either way, this is a way cool car and it actually makes me want to get a damn 6er f-body like yours and build a killer sleeper setup and go win some cash

The only trick for me would be making the turbos quiet enough to not get noticed lol...

Im stoked about all of this because my new shop is opening up on friday! We are going to be rebuilding salvaged late model bikes(mostly cruisers) and building what we call "working class customs"... this also gives me space to bring my GN up here to college with me

either way I have "seen the light" on these late model 3.8s and Im pretty stoked! Is there a turbo 6 fbody forum around or any good places to read up on other peoples setups?

thanks

check out

FullThrottleV6.com - The V6 F-Body, W-Body, and N-Body Tech Source

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

This is another area of concern but when the Cometics became available it helped out a lot of the 20+ psi builds. A few guys have even drilled and tapped addtional holds in the head and block to add extra clamping force towards the outside of the head and block as it seemed that since the area was somewhat then here it was a potential leak area but I also know there are cars running mid to high 20s with a good build and not using the extra bolts without problems. I guess its hard to say since the hardcore guys take the car to the track only a few times a year and I am more of a daily driver guy that wants real world results and requirements but I have not experienced any problems with the head gaskets blowing out yet though it certainly does happen.

the Fbody that intense made is running just 8 studs and he runs 8.90's

you have to change the TQ patteren around a little bit

i'm running 2 and blew a head gasket but i also melted the plugs so not boosts fault lol

 

[at7we2]

NICE WORK!!! I gave this conversion serious consideration a few years ago when I kept wiping cams and spinning bearings in the hardtop GN I had at the time. My wife had (still has) a GTP and I've been very impressed with the durability and performance of the "Series II 3800". I know it's not exactly the same as the RWD F-body Series II like you used, but I believe they're essentially the same internally. Anyway, awsome work and thanks for starting this thread!

 

[87natl]

I just want to see this idea progress and be pushed further. THere's a whole new aftermarket out there just waiting for a fresh idea. God know's there's plenty of those motors out there to begin with. GM knew what they had there, and they tried to put it in every vehicle they could. Just a great motor. But how it will hold up when pushed past it's original design limits...we shall see. KEEP IT UP!!!!

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

I just want to see this idea progress and be pushed further. THere's a whole new aftermarket out there just waiting for a fresh idea. God know's there's plenty of those motors out there to begin with. GM knew what they had there, and they tried to put it in every vehicle they could. Just a great motor. But how it will hold up when pushed past it's original design limits...we shall see. KEEP IT UP!!!!

ZZP has a stock bottom end L67 running low 9 so they should hold up just fine

I also know the L36's in the fbody can take a beating too (one fully stock motor guy is running 11.6's)

 

[Adam Connell]

ZZP has a stock bottom end L67 running low 9 so they should hold up just fine

I also know the L36's in the fbody can take a beating too (one fully stock motor guy is running 11.6's)

Hey man, great forum you sent me to, but are there any vids floating around of these 8 and 9 second passes... these things sound SICK!

 

[Darth Fiero]

Just for reference, all 1995-up 3800 Series 2 blocks are the same regardless if they came in a FWD or RWD car, were supercharged or not. The differences in engines is between the SC and N/A models' interal parts and heads, and I will explain them below...

-Cylinder heads are the same casting, SC heads have injector bosses machined in them and N/A heads do not (but could have them added if you wanted)

-Pistons, pins, and connecting rods are different between the two versions of this engine, obviously the SC version got the heavier duty parts.

-I believe the cranks are the same casting, but the SC crank is going to have heavier counterweights to compensate for the heaver reciprocating mass of the heavy duty parts.

-The counter-balance shafts are differently weighted between SC and N/A engines. The crank balancer and flywheel/flexplate are counterweighted differently between SC and N/A versions (this engine is externally balanced). Obviously the SC balancer also has an additional pulley for the SC belt.


The 3800 Series 3 engine came out in 2004. The heads have slightly bigger valves than the Series 2 engines, but for the most part casting remains the same AFAIK. The Series 3 blocks I have seen still have "Series II" cast into them, so I don't really think there were any changes there. Most Series 3 engines came with powdered metal connecting rods; but I have taken apart an early production Series 3 engine that still had the cast rods just like what was used in the Series 2 engines. Can't tell you if the PM rods are better than the cast rods.

 

[ijames]

So are guys keeping the balance shaft or getting rid of it? The old "better balance, smoother, makes more power vs. lower rotating mass" thing .

 

[84buickregal]

I actually had been collecting parts for this for a while.
l67 block, l67 heads, f-body intake manifolds in place of the blower. but im not sure if i want this or a 4.1
I'm selling my l67 blower and injectors if anyone wants em.

 

[Darth Fiero]

So are guys keeping the balance shaft or getting rid of it? The old "better balance, smoother, makes more power vs. lower rotating mass" thing .

I try to keep the balance shaft in there and working any time possible. It really does help make this engine run smooth. But all of the aftermarket "heavy duty" timing chains I have seen that you are required to run when using large camshafts (because of the stouter valve springs required) don't have provisions for running the balance shaft.

 

[frank700]

Looking for some quick swap info.
Whats the differance between the FWD and the RWD motors?
Whats trans will bolt to this motor?
What motor mounts work?
Thanks, Frank

 

[JDEstill]

well I want to say: Awesome job! Love it! I've been kicking around the same sort of project, though with an eye to installing it in a kit car or maybe an older muscle car ('65 Skylark perhaps???) rather than my GN. Thanks so much for posting your info, that sure helps clarify the plans. Keep us all posted, I will be watching to see where you can take it.

John

 

[RUQWKNF]

Yes!!!!

Big congrats Cody.

That's some serious MPH for a TE60 with only 18psi. Given the heads and cam I'm sure flow tons more than a similarly prepped LC2. Definitely keep us posted on your progress and congrats again. Gotta love the strength that those 6 cross bolt mains give.

And yes, +11ty billion on the please make a swap kit for our cars Trannyman95. I see very good things with this conversion. Especially once the blocks and useable parts start to really dry up.


This reminds me of my fictional short story I wrote years ago, about "The Buick Boys" and their 3800 Series 2 turbocharged Pro Stock Firebird.

Awesome. We gotta have more pics.


Patrick

 

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

I try to keep the balance shaft in there and working any time possible. It really does help make this engine run smooth. But all of the aftermarket "heavy duty" timing chains I have seen that you are required to run when using large camshafts (because of the stouter valve springs required) don't have provisions for running the balance shaft.

if the motor is ballance you dont need it and many many many guys are runing with out hte shaft its just 5 lb of wieght you need need turning around lol

plpus with that big a cam who cares if it vibrates a little

Videos > 11.23 for the V6 camaro - FQuick.com

above is my car


the videos of the 8 seoncd car on on the webpages for these for them lets me see if i can dig them up

 

[Darth Fiero]

if the motor is ballance you dont need it and many many many guys are runing with out hte shaft its just 5 lb of wieght you need need turning around lol

No amount of crank balancing is going to cancel out the uneven running of a 90 deg V6. Don't you think GM would have just done a better balance job on the engine if they could have instead of spending all of the money to design a block to accomidate a balance shaft???

Secondly, I've never seen any dyno tests that show you gain a lot of power by removing the balance shaft. I imagine you might gain some accelleration speed of the engine, but I doubt the amount of gains you get by removing it will amount to anything significant.

plpus with that big a cam who cares if it vibrates a little

I care. It's the 21st century and I want to have my cake and eat it too. If I wanted a 70's race car with a carburator, I would build one. But that's not what I, nor most of my customers want. We want smooth running engines, cold A/C, 30+ MPG fuel econ, and 400+ HP engines. And with today's technology that is possible.